byl tu někdo na retreatu s Jeffem Oliverem?

TLUSTEI: s vetsinou toho co rikas souhlasim. Nektera pravidla maji dobre opodstatneni, i kdyz jim nerozumim, a casto to i respektuju, ale v Goenkove pripade bych s tim asi mel problem. Goenka stejne nema na Vipassanu patent, je to stara technika a kombinuje se s jinymi technikami. Me osobne hodne oslovila kombinace Zenu a Vipassany jak ji popisuje Charlotte Joko Beck (zenova mistryne). Plne souhlasim, ze zkusenost je neprenosna (proto asi nemame kecat, ale sedet, ze ...) a ze kazdy ma svou vlastni cestu.

FRAKTALEK: Inu tak, co nadelas. Ve spouste veci s clankem souhlasim. Ovsem na druhou stranu nektery pravidla maj svy opodstatneni. A Goenka? Zase jenom clovek. Uz me to prestava bavit, vsude jenom samy lidi... ;) Nebudu ho obhajovat, je mi tak nejak volnej. Kultu osobnosti se neucastnim a ani Vipassanu za nej nepovazuju. Pokud to nekdo tak vnima nebo pokud se o to Goenka snazi, tak fajn, ale neni to muj problem.
Za techniku samotnou musim rict, ze mi pomohla spoustu veci otevrit, osvetlit a vyjasnit. A po vsech ruznych jinych pokusech jsem zase prisel na to, ze v jednoduchosti je sila. A to ticho tam...devet dni nemuset ani kvaknout - nadhera. Zkusenost je ale neprenosna, takze dokazovat to komukoliv, kdo neco podobnyho nezazil nema vyznam. A do boje "za Vipassanu!" urcite nepujdu. :)
Osobne jsem dost zvukove zamerena bytost, takze pouzivam nekdy i jiny techniky nez Vipassanu...co nadelam, Vesmir je prilis barevny misto na to bejt zaseklej na jednom odstinu.

Now, can I get an Amen brother? ;)

FRAKTALEK: par citaci

Mr Goenka lays formidable emphasis on the pristine maintenance of the technique and practice. Teachers and old students are strongly cautioned not to practice any other technique for fear of harm or of pollution to the technique, nor to change even the smallest aspect of the Vipassana practice. The teachers are trained to play the audio/video tapes of Mr Goenka as-is and are asked in no uncertain terms not to indulge in any discourse or to disseminate the technique on their own. In the Vipassana folklore, it has happened many times that a teacher has been "blacklisted", or a student has been barred from attending a retreat because of his/her practicing of Reiki or other vibe-oriented new-age practices.

Vipassana is subtly described as the one true path to liberation. All other practices and philosophies are described as either incomplete, as superficial intellectual games or as distant echoes of Vipassana. Due to the special significance and rationale given to dispassionate observation of the bodily sensations, other techniques are considered as only being able to reform the surface mind, whereas Vipassana is claimed to change the unconscious layers of the mind as well.

Mr Goenka is very emphatic in saying that most people, though they believe themselves to be neither the body, nor the carriers of the body, nevertheless are identified as being the body or as being the carriers of the body. His aim is to make this act of belief an insight, rather than just a belief, by actually helping people see the truth of the mind-body phenomenon. He does not, however, question or raise the issue of who or what exactly it is that is to be liberated?
The Soul that is identified with the body or which considers itself the body is sought to be liberated. But whether the Soul is real or illusory or not is not questioned. Only its identification is questioned. Mr Goenka repeatedly claims that it makes no difference if one believes or does not believe in a Soul, but dissociative practices all implicitly believe in an entity (or awareness) which can be dissociated. Mr Goenka explictly discourages discussion about this topic.


Mr Goenka, the appointed teachers, and the old students are visibly attached to the technique and to its associated terms (Dhamma, Sankh¯ar¯a, Mangal) and phraseology. In the very words of Mr Goenka, after a year or so of practicing, daily meditation becomes a necessity and one feels uncomfortable at missing a daily sitting (a hallmark of addictive memes).

(behem kurzu:) Secondly, students are not allowed any time for reflection or thinking over what they are being taught, nor are they allowed to discuss the technique with others or to read/write about it.


There are mainly four categories of members of the Vipassana organization. Teachers, Assistant Teachers, Dhamma workers and students. Students also have a hierarchy based on the number and duration of courses that they have undergone.
Each level is increasingly loyal, unquestioning and dedicated to the technique. In fact, students are not admitted to long courses unless they give in writing that they are fully convinced that Vipassana is the proper vehicle for their liberation and they have not tried any other technique in the recent past.


The happiness on Day Ten of the retreat is vouched as a tell-tale sign of the goodness of Vipassana. But the happiness on that day is not just due to the meditation technique, if at all. The following reasons all contribute to a sense of relief and joy on the faces of the meditators:
The lifestyle in the retreat is usually healthier than one's own. Clean pollution free surroundings, nourishing and bland food, no snacks or late dinners, waking up early and going to bed at nine, silence and the absence of distractions, having a calm and quiet mind, all lead a general increase in well-being and health.
The tenth day is like the light at the end of the tunnel. The students are not free yet, but at least the confinement is over. The silence has ended and they are finally free to talk to each other. It is a great relief to finally pour out all the thoughts and questions that one has been accumulating over the past many days and it is also an end to the mental starvation. One is free to read or write. There might be a film screening at 1pm which provides an added distraction and food to the mind.
The tough meditation regime is over. The last day has only two sittings after the silence ends. Most new students feel relieved and happy at this relaxation in the regimen.

TLUSTEI: jo, muzes to brat takhle anebo to muzes brat tak, ze nekteri lide o nem a jeho technikach maji sve pochybnosti :) doufal jsem, ze tady treba bude nekdo, kdo to dokaze konkretizovat, sam bohuzel slouzit nemohu

tohle jsem ted nasel, jeste jsem to nedocetl:

A Critique of Vipassana Meditation as taught by Mr S N Goenka
Harmanjit Singh, July 20, 2007

FRAKTALEK: Aha. No vidis, me to treba jasny neni ani trochu, tak proto se ptam, protoze me to taky zajima. Nic ve zlym, jen se snazim zjistit na co se ptas. Chlasta? Fetuje? Lze? Znasilnuje deti? Obchoduje s drogama? Co tim "pochybny" myslis? Vystrel do tmy typu "ten a ten je pochybna osobnost. co mi k tomu reknete?" je nic nerikajici. To se da bez podlozeni rict o komkoli a vubec nic to neznamena.

TLUSTEI: polozil bych konkretnejsi, kdyby to slo. Rekl bych, ze je jasne, co se tim mysli.

FRAKTALEK: To je znacne nekonkretni dotaz. Co presne mas na mysli slovem "pochybna"?

EKONY: slysel jsem, ze Goenka je trochu pochybna osobnost... sam o nem temer nic nevim, tak by me zajimal nazor ostatnich

SVA: hele na servis mozno az po absolvovanem 10-dennim odsezenem..
kazdopadne v letnich Pastvinych urcite budu, toz se tam uzrime ;-)



btw pro vsechny - jelikoz byvaji vsechny 10-denni kurzy dycky min. 2 mesice dopredu zarezervovane, pokud se vam klube zajem to v lete zkusit, doporucuju poslat prihlasku idealne v breznu-dubnu 2012..

vse se doctete tu (i online prihlaseni) : www.cz.dhamma.org

EKONY: hej, tak jsem myslela, že to bylo a teď koukám že to teprv bude, tak to já, dobře ty! si s máti právě říkáme, že by jsem šli na servis, když to klapne v létě...:-)

YMLADRIS: Fajn stranka plna prinosnych materialu. Diky

Henk Barendregt - DVĚ TVÁŘE PRÁZDNOTY - a jiné „paradoxy“ Dhammy | MAITREA
http://www.maitrea.cz/akce/dve-tvare-prazdnoty

EKONY: wooow a juch.. :) to jsem zvedava!!

EKONY:
DARJEEL:
Hej prostě jsem ji nic neříkala, jako běž tam - určitě ti to pomůže, pořád se mě vyptávala, a pak mi to najednou oznámila:) ale jasně, ještě nesedí, já si jí ani právě nemůžu představit :-)
Ale přání proběhlo - a nejednou na mette!!!:))))

SVA: dobre !! neco podobneho se prihodilo i v pripade meho taty .. pravda, po cca 5 letech .. akorat na zimni 2012 v Zihli..

jako jestli ho absolvuje tak mam pro tento zivot splneno :-))

Tak se Vám musím pochlubit přátele - maminka se přihlásila na letní 10 denní kurz vipassany s Goenkou :D Teda ještě kurz neabsolvovala, ale to, že nad tím vážně uvažuje mi dává upřímnost radost a naději, že by mohla obdržet dharmu