• úvod
  • témata
  • události
  • tržiště
  • diskuze
  • nástěnka
  • přihlásit
    registrace
    ztracené heslo?
    HITOMIG. R. R. Martin - Píseň ledu a ohně (knihy, seriál, TCG, RPG, deskovky...) SPOILERY POVOLENY!
    ROMI
    ROMI --- ---
    IOM_NUKSO: Suprise motherfucker 😄
    IOM_NUKSO
    IOM_NUKSO --- ---
    ROMI: nedopise to
    ROMI
    ROMI --- ---
    VANEK: Muzes mi dat strucnej vycuc, je to moc dlouhy 🙂
    SCHWAB
    SCHWAB --- ---
    VANEK: ty mi čteš myšlenky!
    VANEK
    VANEK --- ---
    NJAL: OK, začátek mě zaujal a ten zvrat v půlce jsem nečekal; dobře mi tak.
    NJAL
    NJAL --- ---
    x.com
    https://x.com/Devon_Eriksen_/status/1831714435549057245

    Here's what Song of Ice and Fire actually wants to be, and why George can't finish it.

    The Song of Ice and Fire isn't actually supposed to be dark, Machiavellian, hopeless, or a subversion of Tolkien at all.

    It's just supposed to start that way.

    The details may be complex, but the formula is simple. Low-fantasy version of the British Isles, torn apart by multi-sided Machiavellian power struggle, loosely based on the War of the Roses.

    Things are bad because of Machiavellian power struggle.

    In the background, subtle hints of external, magical, otherworldly threat. Warring factions scoff and ignore it as first. Enter the high-fantasy tropes; prophesied hero emerges to unite the morally-grey factions into an unambiguously-good pro-civilization force to confront and defeat the unambiguously-evil threat to all life.

    Full transition, in the end, to epic Tolkienesque high fantasy, played straight rather than subverted.

    Heroism triumphant, humanity triumphant, realm unified in peace and prosperity.

    Roll credits.

    Were the story to be completed thus, completed as it wants to be completed, as it yearns to be completed, every dark, gritty, Machiavellian moment would be fully justified.

    Every chapter and scene filled with thugs and villains and no heroes at all would be fully justified.

    Because they would merely serve to emphasize the rarity of heroes, and the need for them.

    Because they would make the arrival of a true hero that much more satisfying when, late but not too late, he arrived.

    ASOIAF doesn't really want to be a subversion of Tolkien at all. It wants to be a path out of darkness and into light. It wants to be a study in how Tolkien is deeply relevant, even to a gritty, morally grey world.

    This is what George knows it needs to be.

    But George cannot write it.

    Why?

    Because he's a socialist. And a boomer.

    Socialism's motivational core is envy, and its one underlying rule is "thou shalt not be better than me".

    The boomer's single guiding principle is "whatever makes me feel pleasure right now is good, and whatever makes me feel bad right now is evil".

    Take these together, and you get someone who has a real problem with heroes. Heroes are, by definition, the best of us, at least on some dimension, and if your underlying motivation is envy, standing next to one is gonna make you feel bad.

    This means that socialists, boomers, and socialist boomers tend not to want to believe in heroes and heroism.

    They want to convince themselves that anything which appears good is secretly evil, actually, and that anyone who makes them feel or look bad is obviously evil because reasons.

    So when they see a hero, they tend to call him a fascist.

    (Of course, when they see a fascist, they also call him a fascist, but that's just coincidence, because they'll call anything fascist... random passers-by, buildings, rocks, trees, squirrels, anything.)

    Because they want to feel morally superior to him.

    The only way they can admit that someone has a moral compass at all is if they can feel superior to him in some other way, usually by portraying them as naive, and hence doomed to failure because he is not empowered by cynicism and selfishness, to pursue the most efficient path to... whatever.

    So if ol'George thinks that everyone who appears good is either secretly evil, or openly stupid, then writing a character with heroic impulses is gonna be tough, and writing about how they succeed... impossible.

    This is why George can write characters with noble motives (Jon Snow, Eddard Stark, etc), but he keeps making them fail.

    You see, in George's world, heroism must be a sham or a weakness, because then George's own bad character is wisdom and enlightenment, instead of just lack of moral virtue.

    If heroes are all frauds or suckers, then George is being smart, because he has seen through the whole heroism thing.

    If heroes are real, and they do sometimes succeed, and they do make the world better for everyone, then George is just a fat, lazy, cynical old man who doesn't wanna finish his art for the sake of art or integrity, because he only ever wanted money, and now he has more than he knows what to do with.

    In order to finish the story, George would need to have an awakening of virtue.

    He would first have to develop a sense of integrity — a desire to fulfill his promises, even when no one can or will punish him for not doing so.

    He would then have to develop a sense of humility — because to write a better person than he is, he would have to admit to himself that there is such a thing, that people can be better, and that trying to be better is an actual worthy goal, not just the act of falling for a con game run to control you.

    The longer someone goes without admitting to their faults, the harder those faults are to admit to, because they have been more deeply invested in.

    And this means he would also have to develop the courage to admit to himself that he is, in fact, a fat lazy cynical old coward, and that Tolkien, whom he envies and despises, was the far better man all along.
    LODBROG
    LODBROG --- ---
    PIPIN: Still better love story than Twilight? :D
    PIPIN
    PIPIN --- ---
    VANEK: Ale zase je to, na rozdíl od Martina, dopsané! 😀
    VANEK
    VANEK --- ---
    U všech bohů. Že radši nezůstal u fanfiction… ale vlastně je docela roztomilý to číst a (mezi otíráním slzících smíchu) si říkat, jo, tohle má odsud a tamto zase odtámhledtud…
    GUMBA
    GUMBA --- ---
    Omluvte malou reklamu, ale třeba by to zde někoho zajímalo:
    Libor Pelcman, fanoušek G. R. R. Martina a velký nadšenec karetní hry GoT, napsal vlastní fantasy knižní trilogii a aktuálně se chystá vydat první díl (jde o samovydání). Pokud chcete přispět na vydání knihy "V Říši snů", můžete tak učinit zde:

    Podpořte vydání debutového fantasy románu "V říši stínů" | Donio
    https://donio.cz/v-risi-stinu
    ELLIE
    ELLIE --- ---
    (NEVADA_: Podle ikonky a nicku nepoznám ani krkavce, natož lidi, promiň.)
    MINERWA
    MINERWA --- ---
    NEVADA_: tobě přece chybné oslovování nevada :)
    NEVADA_
    NEVADA_ --- ---
    (odhalila, když už)
    ELLIE
    ELLIE --- ---
    (NEVADA_: Pardon. Odhalil jsi mě jako příznivce Prešova.)
    NEVADA_
    NEVADA_ --- ---
    (Krkavci, ne havrani.)
    ELLIE
    ELLIE --- ---
    Jsem moc často na východním Slovensku, takže mi včera u random videa na Youtube došla tahle souvislost... 😅
    (Vim, že Blackwoods tam mají havrany, ale kdo to při zběžným pohledu rozezná?)

    NEVADA_
    NEVADA_ --- ---
    HBO Original Series A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms | Coming In 2025 | Max
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kX_LREDvxRY
    NEVADA_
    NEVADA_ --- ---
    MINERWA: Podle F&B téměř.
    Vhagar ... Byla sice pomalejší než před sto lety, ale dorostla téměř do takové velikosti jako Černý děs ve stáří. (Popis je z doby cca rok od aktuálních událostí v seriálu.)

    Mimochodem - druhé seriálové vidle do MADIETTA. V 2x07 je vidět, že Seasmoke je větší než Syrax. Tady může mít seriál i pravdu, i když Martin výslovně nenapsal, který z nich je starší.
    MINERWA
    MINERWA --- ---
    NEVADA_: tady říká, že Vhagar Baleriona dorostla
    Balerion - Černý děs / Rod draka, House of the Dragon / Hra o trůny, Game of Thrones / Lore příběh
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgd2DjfxaSM
    NEVADA_
    NEVADA_ --- ---
    MINERWA: Ten obrázek je dělaný podle knihy. A částečně autorská licence. Seriál do toho navíc hází vidle. V předloze jsou nejmladší synové Rhaenyry starší a Stormcloud sice pořád malý, ale rozhodně ne ta malá ještěrka, jaká se tam plazila po podlaze v Orlím hnízdě.
    Kliknutím sem můžete změnit nastavení reklam