KAJJAK: no dobře, spousta lidí jim dá peníze a oni pak nakupují. ale to přece není vše. nakupují tak, aby zhodnocovali vklady, to samo o sobě může být problematické pokud podporují firmy, které se vyhýbají regulacím a externalizují náklady do plundrování zdrojů a ničení životního prostředí etc. .. to je ale triviální (a těžko řešitelný) problém kapitalismu, stejně jako nevyhnutelná eskalace koncentrace kapitálu. kde se zastaví? .. ale to pořád není vše. pomocí přesunů tak velkého kapitálu mohou způsobit pohyby na trzích do značné míry ad lib.
pokud mají řídící balík akcií v některých korporacích, mají své lidi ve správních radách těch společností. to je opět neoddiskutovatelný vliv na to co se kde a jak dělá a kdo bude a kdo nebude úspěšný. s rozsahem jejich vlivu to může být docela zábavnej pinčes.
tzn. ty prachy co lidé vložili jsou nástrojem skutečné moci, která je řízena dle vůle řídících orgánů a vlastníků té společnosti..a její vlastnická struktura je ve vrcholech netransparentní. a i kdyby nakonec byla .. mají k dispozici pokročilou AI, velkou moc a bezpochyby mají i agendu, která prosazuje úplně jiné zájmy, než "pouhý nákup ETF, protože to po nich lidi chtějí". kdo jim v tom vlastně může bránit?

KAJJAK: pockej … chces rict, ze kdyz Vanguard vlastni vetsinovy podil, tak ze ho oni nevlastni?

Myslim , ze vychazis z predstavy podobne, ze kdyz mas penize v bance , ze ty penize v bance vlastnis?

Imho je prave dobre si uvedomit, ze penize, ktere mame v bance, nejsou prave nase. I pokud ti na svyvh webstrankach bankovnictvi ukazuje nejake cislo nebo v bankomatu. To nejsou tvoje penize. To je pohledavka, co mas u te banky

U fondu je to stejne. Ty jim davas penize, a oni za tebe investujou.

A kdyz dojde k problemum, rozezene te policie, pokud by sis pro ty prachy chtel fyzicky zajit.

Fondy jsou pro lidi, co si to nechteji resit na vlastni pest, a maji to jako investici. Nevlastnis akcie ale mas jen podil na zisku nebo ztratach . Ten fond je skutecnym vlastnikem akcii.

ALWA: to je fakt v číně alespoň ti lidi viději jak funguje systém plus mínus, ale na západě to jsme tady v auditku správně :D

KAJJAK: My o voze, ty o koze. Víc se k tomu říct nedá.

China bank protest stopped by health codes turning red, depositors say | Reuters
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-bank-protest-stopped-by-health-codes-turning-red-depositors-say-2022-06-14/

SHANGHAI, June 16 (Reuters) - A protest planned by hundreds of bank depositors in central China seeking access to their frozen funds has been thwarted because the authorities have turned their health code apps red, several depositors told Reuters.

The depositors were planning to travel to the central province of Henan this week from across China to protest against an almost two-month block on accessing at least $178 million of deposits, which has left companies unable to pay workers and individuals unable to access savings.

Rights groups have warned China could use its vast COVID surveillance infrastructure to stifle dissent. Without a green code on their smartphone app, citizens lose access to public transport and spaces such as restaurants and malls, as well as the right to travel across the country.

"They are putting digital handcuffs on us," said a depositor from Sichuan province surnamed Chen, who declined to use his full name for fear of government retribution.

The Henan provincial government and the Ministry of Public Security did not respond to requests for comment.

The National Health Commission said in a note sent to Reuters on Thursday the use of health codes should not be expanded without authorisation and cannot be assigned other than in connection with the prevention and control of the epidemic.

After recent COVID outbreaks, some regions in China have asked travellers to register their plans online.

A man surnamed Liu, who lives in Hubei province, found that his health code turned red on the morning of June 12 after he registered the day before to travel to Henan.

Liu had planned to travel to a protest planned for Monday in the Henan provincial capital Zhengzhou, where he had hoped to get his money back. The protest would have been the latest among numerous such demonstrations in Henan in recent months.

More than 200 depositors were similarly blocked when their health codes turned red, according to members of a WeChat group.

It could not be ascertained if the change in code was intended to block the protesters or for another reason, but three depositors told Reuters they knew people who had registered to travel to Henan, who were not connected to the frozen funds, whose codes did not turn red.

Yu Zhou Xin Min Sheng Village Bank, Shangcai Huimin Country Bank and Zhecheng Huanghuai Community Bank froze deposits on April 18, with all three telling customers they were upgrading internal systems. read more

Liu, who declined to give his full name for fear of government repercussions, said his child may not be able to go to school if his code does not soon revert to green.

"I can't do anything, I can't go anywhere. You're treated as though you're a criminal. It infringes on my human rights," said Liu.

Wang Qiong, who lives in the central city of Wuhan, found her health code had turned red after she registered to travel to Henan on June 11.

"The police had my identity details from the last time I went to protest in April," said Wang, who said she has lost access to 2.3 million yuan ($341,550).

Other depositors told Reuters they were able to arrive in Zhengzhou by train and car but their codes turned red as soon as they scanned city health codes.

China Covid pass system allegedly used to block protest
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220615-china-covid-pass-system-allegedly-used-to-block-protest

"It's clearly abuse of power," read another comment.

One bank customer suddenly received a red code when they arrived in the city, despite having a negative PCR virus test result, state media reported.

Another got it without even leaving their home, while some had their red codes turn green when they left Zhengzhou, reported Global Times, a state-run tabloid.

"This kind of behaviour is not only against social morality, but also suspected of breaking the law," read a commentary published by the outlet.

...
Health authorities in Zhengzhou told AFP they were "currently investigating" the situation but provided no further details.

Global Times cited Henan authorities as saying a database glitch may be the cause.

This is not the first time China's Covid pass system has come under fire. Rights advocates say it is being used to stifle protests and suppress individual rights.

In recent months, some dissidents have claimed that their health codes turned red when they attempted to travel to major cities to attend trials or to petition authorities.

// tohle je presne to, co se dalo cekat. a CDBC to muze povysit na dalsi level ve vsem.

Pokud si nekdo mysli "Eh, to je Cina... to se tady stat nemuze".. Muze. Pokud ne v soucasnem zrizeni/vlade, tak treba v te pristi.. Jakmile vytvarite zvetsene pravomoce legislativou nebo temihle technologickymi resenimi, vzdy to muze byt zneuzito v budoucnosti. za rok , za 5 let nebo za 30 let.

Tohle fandove vyssich pravomoci imho casto vubec neuvazuji, ze vlada, ktere ted duveruji, tu nemusi byt v budoucnu. Asi je dobry si predstavit, ze tu pristi volby vyhrajou nacisti nebo Putin, ci proste korupce nabude takove miry, ze uz budou irelevantni, a cely ten aparat bude mit v rukou nekdo totalitne smyslejici. Nacisti byli v tom svem utlaku dohledavat lidi do koncentraku hodne precizni (a tak umeli dohledat Zidy a jine cile velmi uspesne).. diky pouziti technologii a zdroju te doby, i kdyz ve vysledku museli kontrolovat doklady rucne... moznost pouzit digitalni technologie a AI, to je potencial na paradni dystopii. Anebo viz. Cina uz dnes zejo.

Ono uz i ted se nekterym Cechum staly komplikace pri cestovani do zahranici, ze kvuli chybam v systemu prestoze meli svuj CovidPass zelenej, to proste nezafungovalo... v tomhle pripade asi opravdu glitch, ale proste v obou pripadech jsou to nastroje k sikane. Podobne s chystanou novelou zakona na potirani dezinformaci... ona ta hranice, co lze povazovat za dezinformaci, ktera by mohla zpusobit znepokojeni, je hodne nejasna... pokud duverujeme soudcum dnes, nemusi platit o soudech v budoucnu. Ostatne soudce jmenuje prezident. I totality se snazi tvarit spravedlive... takove nastroje jim to jen usnadni.