• úvod
  • témata
  • události
  • tržiště
  • diskuze
  • nástěnka
  • přihlásit
    registrace
    ztracené heslo?
    TUHODezinformace o klimatu // Time to fight back // evidence.ninja
    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices. - Voltaire
    Jedním ze zásadních důvodů, proč je klimatická změna tak obtížné téma je obrovské množství dezinformací, které ho obklopuje. Sociologové identifikovali široké dezinformační hnutí, které je z části organizované fosilním průmyslem. Množství empirických důkazů ukazuje, že fosilní průmysl ročně vynakládá obrovské množství prostředků za cílem oddálit nebo neutralizovat politiky směřující k regulaci spotřeby fosilních paliv.
    Jak se ale v takové debatě vyznat? Jaká je česká debata v kontextu světa? Ale hlavně jaké subjekty se do dezinformací zapojují, jaké techniky a jaké prostředky používají k neutralizaci veřejné diskuze.
    rozbalit záhlaví
    TUHO
    TUHO --- ---
    Mimochodem, trochu nahodne projizdim Epsteinovy maily a narazil jsem na zajimavy vlakno v mailech o fosilni lobby a vlivu na Trumpovu administrativu zrejme od https://www.schulte-research.com/

    Schulte Research: Deep dives into PRC fin tech ownership and Trump cabinet ownership. (DO NOT FORWARD)

    Paul Schulte: Re: Schulte Research: Deep dives into PRC fin tech ownership and Trump cabinet ownership. (DO NOT FORWARD) — Epstein Emails
    https://jmail.world/thread/HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_026036

    2. Koch Industries saturates both the offices of Trump as well as Pence. Mega bullish for Russia, oil and gas companies. Mega bearish for alternative energy.

    A. The Koch Brothers are not just two grumpy men -- they are a political party. Koch Industries is the second biggest private company in the US after Cargill. They operate public and secretive political entities in 32 states and dole out more than $500 million each political cycle to various entities in the strongest places. The political entities employ more than 1,200 people and the amount of donations available to right wing causes varies dramatically but is as high as $750 million per cycle. It is the third largest party in the US after the Democratic and Republican party. It controls the Libre Alliance, Americans for Prosperity, Freedom Partners, Institute for Energy Research, American Energy Alliance and Concerned Veterans.

    B. What do they do with their money? They support right wing Republican candidates for all organizations -- attorneys general, Senate, House and state political figures. This is where it gets interesting. Freedom Partners is thought of as the "Koch bank". Guess who ran this? Marc Short. It controls about $250 mn in funds for political activity. Guess who employed Marc Short as chief of staff? Indiana Governor Mike Pence. Guess who then employed him as chief of staff? President-elect Trump. Matt Lloyd is in charge of communications and strategy for VP-elect Pence -- he came from Koch Industries. Governor Pence was a frequent attendee of the secretive semi-annual meetings of the Koch Brothers. Guess who raised more than $100 million for Freedom Partners? Don McGahn. Guess who is the new White House Counsel for President-elect Trump? Don McGahn. (McGahn was embroiled in the Tom Delay scandal in the 2000s). Guess who had two companies which had Koch Brothers as investors and whose chief of staff (Chenowith) came from the Koch world? The new CIA-designate chief Mike Pompeo. (Pompeo's Kansas campaign received a $900,000 donation from Koch). Guess who gave $1 mn to Americans for Prosperity? Education secretary designate Betsy Devos. Guess who has written the strategy paper for the Department of Energy transition? Tom Pyle -- He is affiliated with the Koch Industries Office of federal Affairs and the Institute for Energy Research. Guess who was caught up in a Koch Industries scandal for a petrochemical port project (with a Koch affiliated Messr. Henneberry)? Governor Nikki Haley who is UN Ambassador designate.

    C. Advisors are ALL Koch-related. Here is where it gets fun. Former campaign advisor Corey Lewandowski came from KochLand. Rebekah Mercer is part of Koch and and gave $2.5 mn to Freedom Partners. Kellyanne Conway has connections to Pence from way back and is connected to Steve Bannon through the Center for National Policy. Trump deputy campaign manager David Bossie came from Citizens United. The Director of Coalitions for Trump is named Alan Cobb -- he came from Americans for Prosperity. Daren Selnick is a transition advisor and he came from Concerned Veterans. Others on the Trump team who came from Kochland include Stuart Jolly, Eli Miller, Scott Hagerstrom and Matt Ciepielowski.

    3. BUY the hell out of Russia -- Exxon Rex is a cabinet trifecta for Koch Brothers.

    A. And there's Exxon Rex. Any contribution from Exxon received money from Koch -- and vice versa. Rex Tillerson is worth $151 million and is leaving Exxon next year. He seems to have accepted secretary of state position. He inked a deal worth $300 billion in oil and gas exploration in 2012. (For that, he received the highest civilian honour bestowed by Russia). This will be a boom for Koch Industries as the sanctions against Russia are lifted. (Thank you Uncle Vlad for interfering in the elections). This will be a boom for Russia -- for equities, FX and bonds. It is clear that sanctions against Russia will be lifted regardless of whether Russia interfered in the elections. (Clinton made this a campaign issue and still lost!).

    B. Anyone who thinks this will be reversed by Greenpeace or other green organization is kidding themselves. The Senate and House is Republican. Majority parties control all committees so they control the agenda. The agenda is set. These guys are geniuses with the news cycle. And the vast array of think tanks controlled by the Koch Brothers (most of them) allows them to control the news cycle as well as the opinion pages of newspapers. The web on control on public opinion from the Koch Brothers reaches every newspaper through a large array of think tanks like the AEI and Cato Institute, not to mention the vast array of Koch think tanks.

    C. If you don't like this, tough luck. Life is not fair. This is not going to be reversed. Think of it as watching a science experiment. Bush lost the popular vote to Gore in 2001 and completely reversed policies on tax, environment, Middle East, energy, fracking, birth control, and LGBT issues. Trump, Pence, Bannon and Koch will make a deal which will be a hybrid of religious right on moral issues and "zero intrusion from government" in commerce. Republicans already control the Senate, the House, a majority of governorships as well as a majority of attorneys general. It will be very hard to reverse this. And if Trump can deliver jobs to the midwest red states, more senate seats will turn red. Tom Pyle's list of things to for the Department of Energy's transition team is expressly designed to do this. This includes new oil and gas leasing projects, more fracking, more coal, more LNG projects -- and a green light for both the Keystone and Dakota pipelines. The working paper reneges on the Paris pact, the Clean Power Plan and the carbon tax. And it is expressly a climate change denial policy. States like North Dakota, South Dakota, Oklahoma, Iowa, Texas, Louisiana, West Virginia, Kansas and others will come to life again.. Most of these states have small populations but each gets a governor and two senators.
    TUHO
    TUHO --- ---
    LOOKASH_II: “Cely zamer postavit vetrniky tak potaji zacala vyjednavat pofiderni firma ktera zatim nepostavila aniu jednu vrtuli”
    - Tohle vidim jako realny riziko. Ty projekty se daj delat ruzne a v podobnym byznysu uz byla rada sibru, ktery je pripravej blbe nebo se snazej setrit, kde by nemeli. Na druhou stranu, u nas zatim v podstate nikdo vrtule nestavi, takze to muze byt i legit start.
    Nepamatujes si, co je to za firmu? Klidne bych je zkusil proklepnout… A pokud to je nejaky smecko, rad ti zjisteni predam.
    TUHO
    TUHO --- ---
    LOOKASH_II: Diky za odpoved, mrknu na to postupne. Jiste jsou tam legitimni body, ale spousta veci se da minimalizovat, nicmene mas tam taky dost az bludu bych rekl. Postupne:

    K mikroplastum, ano neco se z turbin sdira. Dansko ma pres 6000 turbin, ktery dodavaj cca 50 procent energie. A oder z mikroplastu cele tehle flotily je tisicina toho, co se tam uvolni z pneumatik.
    Kdy planujes zapojeni do “hnuti odporu” proti pneumatikam?

    Our findings indicate that the mass of eroded plastic ranges from 30 to 540 g per year per blade. The mass loss is higher for wind turbines offshore (80–1000 g/year per blade) compared to onshore (8–50 g/year per blade). The estimations are compared with scientific literature data and other gray literature sources. Using the entire Danish wind farms portfolio, we quantify the yearly mass of plastic from blade erosion to be about 1.6 tons per year, which is an order of magnitude less than that from footwear and road marking and three orders of magnitude less than that from tires.

    https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/17/24/6260
    LOOKASH_II
    LOOKASH_II --- ---
    TUHO: tak urcite, nejdriv bych mel asi udelat NIMBY disclosure. Mam chalupu na hranici stredoceskyho, plzenskyho a karlovarskyho kraje, kde je kopcovita krajina, nedaleko doupovskych hor.
    Ta oblast ma status prirodniho parku a je tam 6 zakonem chranenych prirodnich pamatek s chranenymi druhy rostlin a zivocichu, krom toho tam hnizdi jerab popelavy, orel morsky, cap cerny a ma tam migracni oblast cca 50 dalsich ptacich druhu, je to cca 500-600 mnm. Kdyz k tomu pripoctu 6MW vetrnik s vyskou 240m kterych tam navrhujou 7-9 tak se dostavame na nejakych 750-800 mnm.

    Cely zamer postavit vetrniky tak potaji zacala vyjednavat pofiderni firma ktera zatim nepostavila aniu jednu vrtuli, presvedcujou zastupitelstvo a obyvatele ze je to skvelej napad a jak budou mit levnejsi elektrinu kdyz si nechaji okolni kopce osadit vezema vyssima nez zizkovska vez. Tak to jen. na okraj.

    V te oblasti je pomerne malej svetelnej smog, takze tam jsou jeste celkem dobre videt hvezdy. Nevede tam zadna silnice, je tam ticho a klid. Kazda vez ma svetla ktery samozrejme v noci sviti, vrtule o rozmeru 100m, ktery pri otaceni generujou infrazvuk. Manzelka trpi migrenou a jezdime tam proto aby si odpocinula.

    Byl jsem se podivat na vetrniky v Pcherach, je to monstrum a to jsou ty mensi ktery maji 3MW. Vydava to prapodivny zvuky, kurvi to krajinu a lopatky jsou obri rozmetace mikroplastu s bisfenolem A.

    A to se porad bavime o jednom katasru, to samy se deje v okolnich katastrech kde chteji postavit dalsi vetrniky, ktery budou videt z vic nz 10-15 km daleko. Nedaleko se nachazi dalsi oblast kounovskych kamenych rad a tzv Dzbansko kde je opet krasna krajina s kopcema a minimalnim vizualnim znecistenim, i mobilni vysilace jsou tam vystaveny ve forme pseudo stromu aby to nekazilo krajinu.

    No a to samy se deje na Slansku smerem k ceskemu stredohori, nevixm jestli znas krajinu smerem na Chomtov, Milesovku, Rip, kdyz vujedes za Slany tak se otevre nadherny vyhled do krajiny, ktery v nasledujich par letech zkurvi desitky vrtuli.....

    Takze asi tak...
    TUHO
    TUHO --- ---
    TUHO:

    Online misinformation, while being an umbrella term covering many different phenomena, can be characterised, in this perspective, not as low-quality information that spreads because of the inefficiency of online communication, but as high-quality information that spreads because of its efficiency. The difference is that ‘quality’ is not equated to truthfulness but to psychological appeal.

    Cognitive attraction and online misinformation | Humanities and Social Sciences Communications
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-019-0224-y
    TUHO
    TUHO --- ---
    LOOKASH_II: Naprosto verim tomu, ze si tomu venoval spoustu casu. Stejne verim, ze uprimne veris, ze je to zlo.
    Jenom je v tom jeden problem - sdilis tady uplnej bullshit :)) Az budu mit chvili, tak ti to popisu podrobneji. Kdyz jsem se pred par lety dozvedel, jak v USA fosilni lobby organizuje lokalni regionalni paniky proti obnovitelnejm zdrojmu (konkrteni proti offshore vetrnejm elektrarnam, ze zabijej velryby treba), tak jsem si rikal, kdy se to dostanem k nam.
    Ups, no je to tady. Smutny, ze cim se ty ne-fosilni alternativy stavaj uspesnejsi, tim vic se to bude sirit.
    TUHO
    TUHO --- ---
    LOOKASH_II: nicmene, kdyz si tomu venoval tolik casu, tak co je teda nejvetsi argumenty proti vetru? muzes to sesumirovat treba 5 nejdulezitejsich argumentu?
    LOOKASH_II
    LOOKASH_II --- ---
    Venoval jsem tomu dostatek casu abych si udelal vlastni nazor. Ano verim tomu ze VTE jsou zlo a to vo ted probiha ve vetsine obci ve stredoceskym kraji je horsi nez smejdi z hrncema. Jde jako vzdycky o prachy, vubec ne o nejakou energetickou diverzifikaci. To je jenom smoke mirror.
    BASIK
    BASIK --- ---
    LOOKASH_II: Taky by to bezemisne pokrylo tretinu spotreby cely republiky. Kazdopadne "totalne znici" jsou fakt silny slova. Povrchovy doly jsou v pohode?
    TUHO
    TUHO --- ---
    LOOKASH_II: tyve dyt na tech strankach je to samej bullshit (ale nutno rict, ze je to ontolic). tomuhle ty seriozne veris? :-o kdo za tim je, nejakej uhlobaron? :)
    kazdopadne ceska krajina znicena, a mely bysme pracovat na tim, aby znicena nebyla (velky monokulturni lany, pesticidy, etc)… do toho dopady klimaticky krize nepomahaj (sucha, privalovy deste). takze jo, krajina potrebuje pomoct, ale odboj proti vte? seriously? 1800 vte rozhodne totalne neznici ceskou krajinu, sorry
    LOOKASH_II
    LOOKASH_II --- ---
    Aha :) tak treba https://www.stopvte.cz/ chysta se 1800 vetrniku vsude kolem nas ktere totalne znici ceskou krajinu, to mi prijde dost smutny, vam ne?
    TUHO
    TUHO --- ---
    LOOKASH_II: aktivniho odporu vuci cemu? co se chysta? muzes to trochu rozvest?
    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    LOOKASH_II: no to je tady pro tebe asi spatne auditko ,) ja osobne jsem spis priznivce tohohle typu energetiky a ten odpor me zajima sociologicky a ve vztahu ke klimatu z pohledu tech dezinformaci
    LOOKASH_II
    LOOKASH_II --- ---
    TADEAS: na FCB se nedostanu, ale pokud mate nejake novinky nebo zdroje ohledne akceleracnich zon, tak to sem prosim hazej...

    jsem soucasti aktivniho odporu, to je brutal co se chysta
    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    TADEAS: naší krajinu nedáme!

    Jakub Svoboda - ⚠️A takto probíhají jednání⚠️ Čtěte až do...
    https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1CQ5iXqDmM/
    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    anti akceleracbi zony

    Jakub Svoboda - Nový zákon se sice připravuje, ale lze se...
    https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1iBNAQwzgn/
    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    Bill Gates Gave $3.5M to Think Tank Run by Climate Crisis Denier Bjorn Lomborg  - DeSmog
    https://www.desmog.com/2025/11/05/bill-gates-donated-climate-denier-bjorn-lomborg-copenhagen-consensus-center/
    JINDRICH
    JINDRICH --- ---
    TADEAS: tak jasny karcinogeni vzdusna eroze je dost kreativni argument...

    urcite rozsirovani o dalsi stozar bude jednoduzsi, nez nova vystavba (ale btw ony uz ty prvni stozary v Jindrichovicich z prelomu tisicileti byli mestske).
    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    JINDRICH: no me jde o ty dezinformacni aspekty a zajimalo by me, nakolik to prihrivaji vselijake zajmy, nakolik je to nejaka organicka aktivita (podle me spis sekundarne)

    asi to casteji je pruchozi tam kde uz to stoji. to jestli z toho obec neco ma nebo jak se na tom podili mi prijde, ze se tady splachne spis ideologickyma argumentama a ten financni aspekt neni tak dulezity.
    JINDRICH
    JINDRICH --- ---
    TADEAS: Tak development spolu s obci je obliben v nemecku... a v cr to ma evidentne take efekt.

    Další větrnou elektrárnu podpořilo v Jindřichovicích 55 procent hlasujících - Liberecký deník
    https://liberecky.denik.cz/zpravy_region/jindrichovice-pod-smrkem-referendum-vetrna-elektrarna-podpora-volby-2025.html
    Kliknutím sem můžete změnit nastavení reklam