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    FESAKFLOYDDementogenní psychofarmaka a metabolické jedy
    Psychiatric Drugs Kill the Lives of Those Who Take Them http://www.encognitive.com/node/1185 Drug-Induced Dementia: a perfect crime http://www.amazon.com/Drug-Induced-Dementia-MD-Grace-Jackson/dp/1438972318 Brain Damage Caused by Neuroleptic Psychiatric Drugs http://www.mindfreedom.org/kb/psychiatric-drugs/antipsychotics/neuroleptic-brain-damage Evidence of Neuroleptic Drug-Induced Brain Damage http://www.ahrp.org/risks/biblio0100.php Arch Gen Psychiatry -- Abstract: Long-term Antipsychotic Treatment and Brain Volumes: A Longitudinal Study of First-Episode Schizophrenia, February 2011, Ho et al. 68 (2): 128 http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/2/128 Metanalysis: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014976341200125X Antipsychotic deflates the brain Drug for schizophrenia causes side effects by shrinking part of the brain. http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100606/full/news.2010.281.html Indeed, it looks as if after some 50 years widespread prescribing there is going to be a massive re-evaluation and re-interpretation of these drugs, with a reversal of their evaluation as a great therapeutic breakthrough. It now seems distinctly possible that for half a century the creation of millions of asocial, neuroleptic-dependent but docile Parkinsonian patients has been misinterpreted as a ‘cure’ for schizophrenia. This wholesale re-interpretation represents an unprecedented disaster for the self-image and public reputation – not just of psychiatry – but of the whole medical profession. Perhaps the main useful lesson from the emergence of the 'atypical' neuroleptics is that psychiatrists did not need to make all of their agitated and psychotic patients Parkinsonian in order to suppress their behavior. ‘Atypicals’ are weakly neuroleptic but highly sedative. This implies that sedation is probably sufficient for behavioral control in most instances [3, 17]. In the immediate term, it therefore seems plausible that already-existing, cheap, sedative drugs (such as benzodiazepines or antihistamines) offer realistic hope of being safer, equally effective and subjectively less-unpleasant substitutes for neuroleptics in many (if not all) patients. I would argue that this should happen sooner rather than later. If we apply the test of choosing what treatment we would prefer for ourselves or our relatives with acute agitation or psychosis, knowing what we now know about neuroleptics, I think that many people (perhaps especially psychiatric professionals) would now wish to avoid neuroleptics except as a last resort. Few would be happy to wait a decade or so for the accumulations of a mass of randomized trial data (which may never emerge, since such trials would lack a commercial incentive) before making the choice of less dangerous and unpleasant drugs [17]. But there is no hiding the fact that if neuroleptics were indeed to be replaced by sedatives then this would seem like stepping-back half a century. It would entail an acknowledgement that psychiatry has been living in a chronic delusional state – and this may suggest that the same could apply to other branches of medicine. Since such a wholesale cognitive and organizational reappraisal is unlikely, perhaps the most realistic way that the desired change in practice will be accomplished is not by an explicit ‘return’ to old drugs but by the introduction of a novel (and patentable) class of sedatives which are marketed as having some kind of (more-or-less plausible) new therapeutic role. Why are doctors still prescribing neuroleptics? by Bruce G Charlton http://www.hedweb.com/bgcharlton/neuroleptics.html
    rozbalit záhlaví
    SHEALA
    SHEALA --- ---
    KLUZAU: Disociativum. Pád do temnot. Něco co bych si nedala, ani když bych si byla stopro jistá, že mě to neudusí, nevykřečuje, a to mám za sebou jistou zkušenost s MDMA a houbama.
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    KLUZAU: vyzkumy ukazuji ze bez ohledu na kvalitu psychedelicke zkusenosti ma na depresi pomerne radikalni ucinek. bohuzel strasne variabilni v delce ucinku (dny az tydny). zkouseli nejake pribuzne molekuly bez psychedelickeho potencialu a vypada to docela slibne.
    KLUZAU
    KLUZAU --- ---
    Ketamin je psychedelicka zalezitost, ne? V ramci psychologie potencialu prece nejde delat jednoduche rovnice ketamin: snizi/zvysi depresi, kdyz je to peak experience?
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    PETGRIDUS: tak samozrejme i piko se zkouselo. akorat nemelo tak dobre vysledky...
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    CORNELA: zato u ostatnich AD je compliance stoprocentni a vsichni je berou nadsene a dobrovolne... asi ne. kdyz bude na deprese fungovat, je to asi otazka prioriy.. kdyz to nekomu funguje 3 tydny proti depresi (a vliv ketaminu na funkcnost vymizi po hodine) asi se najdou i taci to do toho pujdou i kdyby jim ta hodina byla meganeprijemna, nemluvo o moznosti sedace v tu dobu...
    KOCOURMIKES
    KOCOURMIKES --- ---
    pane Morphpler to je marny s nima, jsou to hlavicky zabednene v opozici
    PETGRIDUS
    PETGRIDUS --- ---
    na co potřebuješ v depresích aby se ti rozpadl svět před očima?
    PETGRIDUS
    PETGRIDUS --- ---
    MORPHLER: člověk který si vezme v depresích keťák je podle mne magor, to už to pak rovnou můžeš "léčit" třeba pikem.
    PETGRIDUS
    PETGRIDUS --- ---
    MORPHLER: srovnávat adčka s ketaminem to už je dobrej úlet.
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    PETGRIDUS: no a? jak souvisi to co tebe rekreacne laka s tim co si vezme nekdo kdo trpi v depresich?
    PETGRIDUS
    PETGRIDUS --- ---
    MORPHLER: o těch účincích keťáku znám z doslechu a tak nějak mne to neláka si znalosti prohlubovat
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    CORNELA: nejsou vedlejsi ucinky, jsou jen ucinky. ketamin jich ma spousty. taky znam lidi co ketamin uzivali ve velkych kvantech relatvine dlouhodobe (Lilly). jak souvisi to jestli ja znam "vedlejsi" ucinky s tim jestli to na deprese nekdy opravdu funguje? proc se rovnou nezeptas jestli mam s ketaminem nejake zkusenosti? o ucincich AD kterym se rika vedlejsi se ani bavit nebudem, co?
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    PETGRIDUS
    PETGRIDUS --- ---
    MORPHLER: ty by sis vzal na deprese ketamin? tak to si slušnej střelec.
    SHEALA
    SHEALA --- ---
    KLUZAU: jo, akorát... nejsem psychiatr :) Ale jsem byla v PL v pozici studentky psychologie, tj mám privilegia, víc si mě vážej ...
    KLUZAU
    KLUZAU --- ---
    SHEALA: zacinam mozna chapat, v cem je mozna problem. Se vsi uctou, nazval bych to syndrom lokalni praxe. Zkusim o tom nekdy napsat vice. Pise se o tom uz i venku. Pomalu. Prece to psychiatri nedelaji, protoze jsou zli, zejo.
    SHEALA
    SHEALA --- ---
    MORPHLER: jasný, takže ty SSRI fungujou fenomenologicky. Fungujou, ale rozhodně neovlivňují neurotrasmitery.

    Achjo. Pokouším se nebejt sarkastická, ale spala sem tři hodiny, přičemž optimum pro můj organismus je deset. To se prostě nedá.
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    _BENNY: nejaka biochemie... no to urcite ano.. ale to nedela ten pavedecky zvast "poruseny biochemismus" nijak vedectejsim. nikde nenajdes jak poruseny teda ma presneji byt kdyz se nasazuji ssri, ty se nasazuji podle klinickeho obrazu, fenomenologickeho pohledu, ne podle biochemickeho vysetreni- coz o cele teorii neco rika. jak jsem psal, zasahujes do jednoho z hlavnich neuroprenasecu, tak jasne, ze to s lidmi neco udela a u nekterych je to i zmena k lepsimu (a nekterym na deprese ty ssri vubec nepomohou, jakto, kdyz prece udelali stejne (bio)chemicke ovlivneni?) Ony i starsi AD nekdy funguji, a jasne ze funguji biochemicky, ale ovlivnuji neco uplne jineho, tak kdyby ta teorie opravdu byla vedecka musi se nejak vyporadat i s tim.

    znovu polozim otazku: co presne, ve vedeckych pojmech znamena, kdyz nekomu, u koho si neudelal biochemicke vysetreni, u ktereho neznas premorbidni stav, nevis jak konkretne jeho neurotransmoterovy system funguje normalne ani jak funguje presne aktualne reknes, ze ma narusenou biochemii mozku? opakuji ze pavedeckost "biochemickeho naruseni" spociva v tom ze to vlastne je jen takovy lez detem, zadna ucelena teorie, nic co by se dalo overovat ci vyvratit...

    a ten ketamin funguje (i vice nez tyden) velmi spolehlive a to nema vliv na serotoninovy system stejnym zpusobem jako ssri.. tak jakto ze na takovou "nerovnovahu" funguje? nebyla to jina nerovnovaha? ... ale jak pise spravce, o antidepresivech tenhle klub neni.
    KOCOURMIKES
    KOCOURMIKES --- ---
    _BENNY: benny do antidepreiv se tady nebudeme poustet jasny, nejsou to dementogeny, poskozuji ale emocionalni centra v mozku nemam u sebe knizku drug induced dementia tak nevim z pameti, antidepresiva nejsou benny predmetem tohoto auditka.
    KOCOURMIKES
    KOCOURMIKES --- ---
    _BENNY: bude web benny
    _BENNY
    _BENNY --- ---
    MORPHLER: zkusim to vysvetlit uplne jednoduse z ryze pozorovatelskeho pohledu - mas deprese. sportujes, bavis se s lidmi, chodis pravidelne spat, nicmene stejne je vsechno uplne na hovno a nepomaha nic. a jakakoliv zmena stav spis zhorsuje. no a pak si das antidepresivum a se vsemi temi vecmi jde najednou dobre pracovat. proc to predtim nevyresila joga, ale teprve leky? ze by nejaka biochemie?
    _BENNY
    _BENNY --- ---
    KOCOURMIKES: na tos ale nemusel zakladat diskuzni klub, k tomu by ti stacil obycejny status/tweet :)
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