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    TUHOKlimaticka zmena / Thank you so much for ruining my day
    JIMIQ
    JIMIQ --- ---
    To je furt dokola. Pptrebujeme minimalne 12 jadernych reaktoru o vykonu 1200MW, ktere potrebuji chlazeni 2000-2500MW kazdej. Na to tady nejsou moznosti. Proste to v CR nejde uchladit!
    A i kdyby - minimalne jeden z tech reaktoru bude vzdy prochazet doplnenim paliva, nekdy se sejdou treba i ctyri naraz. 16 neuchladime uz teprv!
    Ergo - potrebujeme (i kdybychom jeli cestou full jadra) nejakou nahradu/rezervu.
    Tak proc rovnou nejit cestou OZE, ktere se postavi 10x rychlejc a stoji polovinu a taky potrebuji plynovou (vodikovoi, baterkovou) rezervu?

    Tohle by ani nemela byt diskuze co se vede v hodpode, ne to jeste aby to oficialne bylo soucasti narodniho energo planu

    Nesmysl
    XCHAOS
    XCHAOS --- ---
    PAD: Dobře, ale jaderná energie taky "nevychází" - resp. vychází, pokud by měla elektrárna životnost 60let, což je dost úlet (stačí se podívat, jaký problém máme s některými +/- 100 let starými železničními mosty... a to je dost primitivní a v zásadě "transparentní" technologie)

    Třeba Space Shuttle byl vyřazený z provozu proto, protože nejen, že nešlo sehnat náhradní díly: ale ony už ty firmy, které ho vyrobily, z velké části ani neexistovaly. Velmi podobný byl problém u Concordu: generace inženýrů, která ho navrhla, tak akorát odešla celá do důchodu, a nikdo z těch mladších tomu pořádně nerozumněl.

    Jaderná energetika není jen o tom, že reaktor nezrezaví (no, asi nezrezaví) a o tom, že odstavený ho uchladíme, když nepřijde tsunami (no, asi uchladíme). Je to velmi komplexní systém, který je hodně závislý na těch lidech, kteří mu plně rozumí. Takže na jednu stranu potřebujeme jaderné experty, jejichž mluvčí bude nějaká Drábová... na druhou stranu: fakt na tom chceme být absolutně závislí? Zvlášť po odstupu od uhlí? Chceme být závislý na složitém zdroji energie, u kterém je jak technologie, tak palivo samotné dodáváno z ciziny, a my máme max. tak výsadu fungovat jako autonomní smetiště?

    Terrawatthodinové úložiště je projekt, na kterém je potřeba začít pracovat. Je blbost tady, daleko od moře a v parhokaté krajině, dotovat větrníky. Těch postaví Evropa dost v pobžežních vodách Severního moře. Ale když se naučíme vykupovat přebytky, když jsou levné, a vracet je do sítě, když jsou drahé, tak můžeme být v tomhle s naší robustní přenosovou soustavu první a nejlepší v Evropě...
    PAD
    PAD --- ---
    XCHAOS: Mluvis o kratkodobem (radove dny) nebo dlouhodobem ulozisti? Tohle se tu uz resilo X-krat:

    1) OZE maji nyni fundamentalni problem sezonniho uloziste. Zatim to proste ekonomicky nevychazi. Nemluvim jen o elektrine, ale i o teple, kde je uhli velmi dulezite.
    2) Kratkodobe uloziste se zacinaji pomalu rozsirovat, ale bez dotaci to vetsinou nedava smysl - obzvlaste, pokud mas stabilni pripojeni ke gridu.
    3) Ty prebytky z OZE jsou distributorum spis na obtiz - kdyz zacne hodne svitit, nebo foukat, tak vlastne nevi, co s tim. Musi se kvuli tomu posilovat prenosova soustava, coz stoji penize a lide ta nova vedeni moc nechtej (treba v Nemecku). Ja tohle nevnimam jako nejaky podly boj proti OZE, ale jako racionalni reakci na jejich limity. Resenim je imho postavit tu situaci tak, aby lide, kteri jsou vystavbou OZE a souvisejici infrastruktury zasazeni, na OZE zaroven i vydelavali. To za prve. A za druhe, aby se idealne vsechna energie vyrobena z OZE pokud mozno spotrebovavala lokalne. K tomu by mohla prispet ta energodruzstva, co EU tlaci.
    XCHAOS
    XCHAOS --- ---
    PAD: no, pokud je v síti přebytek, tak to může být i proto, že i té uhelné elektrárně chvíli trvá, než "vychladne". sice akumulovat to je o trochu lepší, než to poslat chladící věží do vzduchu, ale obecně, není to zrovna ten případ jako přebytky z OZE, kdy skutečně dává smysl to pouštět do sítě levně, případně dokonce někomu za odebrání platit (i když to je neudržitelný extrém).

    úložiště by mělo ze sítě vykupovat levné přebytky a vracet je do sítě zpět, pokud je ve špičce síť ochotná je vykoupit draze. a podle mě skutečně nemáme na výběr - je to buď jádro, nebo úložiště. Mix obnovitelných zdrojů nikdy nedosáhne dostatečné kapacity, ani kdybychom přidali bůhvíkolik bioplynek. Ta decentralizace je sama o sobě fajn, protože jednak redundance, jednak ekonomická soutěž (které se ale ve skutečnosti všichni brání zuby nehty ... žijeme obecně ve společnosti, která se rozhodla přebytky spíš ničit, než aby je dávala pod náklady, což by byl skutečný význam slova "soutěž")
    PAD
    PAD --- ---
    XCHAOS: Jak myslis "akumulovat prebytky z uhli"? Uhli neni tak trvrdy zdroj jak treba JE. A zaroven neni tak nespolehlivy, jako OZE.
    XCHAOS
    XCHAOS --- ---
    TADEAS: potřebujeme akumulaci, ale tu potřebujeme ve fakt velkém měřítku. a dokud by akumulovala přebytky z uhlí, tak je to v podstatě trochu nesmysl (ale zase nejde to nejdřív neotestovat...)
    XCHAOS
    XCHAOS --- ---
    Místo tajgy pustina. ‚Pohostinné‘ Rusko by Číně prodalo celou Sibiř | Firmy a trhy | Lidovky.cz
    https://www.lidovky.cz/...ohostinne-rusko-by-cine-prodalo-celou-sibir.A201204_103837_firmy-trhy_tesa
    DRSH
    DRSH --- ---
    Bez uhlí v roce 2038. „Klima nezajímá, co považuje uhelná komise za přijatelné,“ kritizuje ekolog Ač | Plus
    https://plus.rozhlas.cz/...-roce-2038-klima-nezajima-co-povazuje-uhelna-komise-za-prijatelne-8376239
    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    JIMIQ: o ty taky vedej prd, to by zrovna smysl melo
    TUHO
    TUHO --- ---
    “The way we are moving is a suicide,” the United Nations secretary general, António Guterres, said in an interview on Monday, and humanity’s survival will be “impossible” without the United States rejoining the Paris agreement and achieving “net zero” carbon emissions by 2050, as the incoming Biden administration has pledged.

    UN secretary general: humanity faces climate 'suicide' without US rejoining Paris agreement | Environment | The Guardian
    https://www.theguardian.com/...iden-rejoining-paris-agreement-un-secretary-general-climate-emissions
    JIMIQ
    JIMIQ --- ---
    Treba vsichni myslej energii zemskeho jadra, hmm :D
    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    Re-powering -- It's The New, New Thing For Existing Wind Farms
    https://cleantechnica.com/2020/12/05/repowering-new-thing-existing-wind-farms/
    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    Vědec z uhelné komise: Jádra potřebujeme víc, jinak s uhlím skončit nelze - Seznam Zprávy
    https://www.seznamzpravy.cz/...helne-komise-jadra-potrebujeme-vic-jinak-s-uhlim-skoncit-nelze-132531

    jadro! :)
    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    Green growth vs degrowth: are we missing the point? | openDemocracy
    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/green-growth-vs-degrowth-are-we-missing-point/

    Green growth sceptics do not dispute the need for decoupling, but observe that the faster we grow the faster we have to decouple. Even a modest goal like 2% growth per year implies doubling the scale of consumption every 35 years. Unfortunately, we have never approached the rates of decoupling that would be necessary for rich countries to get back within their fair share of ecological space while maintaining that kind of exponential growth.

    Green growth advocates tend to respond that the historical record shouldn’t be taken as a guide to what is possible in future. Pessimism about future technological breakthroughs will be self-fulfilling, they say.

    For some this is a compelling and entertaining debate. But it is not going to be settled in a timeframe that is useful for maintaining a habitable planet. In the meantime, these adversaries are in danger of delivering a major own goal. Because the more time we spend in nerdy (and sometimes venomous) exchanges about decoupling, the less time we have to build the broad-based movement we need to take on the vested interests who benefit from the status quo.

    The question we should ask is: can those who care about economic and environmental justice on either side of this divide — growth optimists and growth sceptics — agree on a basic set of demands that can stop us hurtling toward ecological collapse? I believe that we are closer to a consensus than might immediately seem to be the case, for six reasons.





    A Doughnut-Shaped Recovery from Covid-19 - A Good Life For All Within Planetary Boundaries
    https://goodlife.leeds.ac.uk/doughnut-shaped-recovery/

    In a report published this week by the University of Leeds, Dan O’Neill and I outline four critical strategies required to alleviate our dependence on growth, and highlight some opportunities for advancing these strategies as part of our COVID-19 recovery planning.
    SHEFIK
    SHEFIK --- ---
    TUHO: treba takovej?

    25.17% efficient perovskite solar cell via new photoactive layer – pv magazine International
    https://www.pv-magazine.com/...1/23/25-17-efficient-perovskite-solar-cell-via-new-photoactive-layer/
    TUHO
    TUHO --- ---
    TADEAS: tak tenhle problem by mohl celkem zmizet, pokud se podari prulom s perovskite solary ne?
    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    The weekend read: Solar needs aluminum, but it has a carbon problem – pv magazine International
    https://www.pv-magazine.com/...05/the-weekend-read-solar-needs-aluminum-but-it-has-a-carbon-problem/

    The energy transition, the World Bank says, will require more aluminum than any other metal. In order to keep temperatures below a two-degree increase, clean energy technologies will need almost six million tons of the metal each year by 2050. By comparison, the combined total of lithium, cobalt and nickel, the mineral poster children of the energy transition for their use in batteries, is not expected to pass four million tons. These estimates rely heavily on myriad assumptions, but they underline the importance that metals have along the path to zero-emission energy.

    Almost all this aluminum for clean energy will be used in solar module frames. Its resistance to corrosion and light weight make it an optimal choice for exposure to the elements and ensuring modules structural stability.

    Aluminum’s energy challenge
    Aluminum may be needed for the climate, but the industry’s main environmental challenge is its own climate impact, according to engineering professor Guðrún Sævarsdóttir at the University of Reykjavik. Production is reaching ever higher volumes, but so are the industry’s carbon emissions.

    “There has been a large increase in the production volume of aluminum [over the past two decades], it has more than doubled since the year 2000,” says Sævarsdóttir. “And a lot of that development has been based on coal power, unfortunately.”

    New Chinese aluminum smelters have driven the spike in production, and they now produce more than half the world’s new aluminum. While the country relies on coal for 70% of its power, the power mix of aluminum smelters is more than 90% coal, according to Sævarsdóttir’s research.

    Mining, refining and smelting new aluminum produces nearly 2% of the world’s total carbon emissions. Every ton of aluminum produces on average roughly 15 tons of CO2 equivalents. That’s almost four tons higher than 20 years ago. By some measures the jump in aluminum production may mean 400 million more tons of CO2 equivalents each year by 2040.

    ...

    The process is not only energy intensive, but the mineral’s oxygen combines with carbon anodes to emit CO2. The direct carbon emissions make up roughly 10% of the process’s total emissions, and electricity consumption contributes 71%, according to Sævarsdóttir’s work.

    “We’re not going to get rid of these emissions unless something is done about the process,” says Sævarsdóttir.

    Recycling dramatically reduces the energy required to feed the metal into circulation, and aluminum is in theory infinitely recyclable. The Aluminum Association, an industry representative body, estimates that 75% of all aluminum ever produced is still in circulation. Mining companies are inching toward investing in recycling plants, such as Rio Tinto’s Canadian plant announced in September.

    In the World Bank’s two-degree scenario, the proportion of recycled aluminum will grow, but it will still only cover 61% of demand. The ASI expects to release proposed standards to address climate impacts in the next several months for consultation, but establishing a path for carbon reduction may take much longer.

    ...

    Smelting often requires an order of magnitude more energy than other steps. To ensure they are supplied by renewable energy, some smelters in China are discussing whether to transport entire operations to areas where the grid relies on renewables, Jones says, but none have moved yet.

    Smelters are designed for constant power, but German firm Trimet has transformed some of its furnaces in an aluminum smelter to adapt to variable power. While smelters need to keep materials in a molten state, engineers add flexibility that allows the smelter to work with 25% less or 25% more power than typically used. When there is excess electricity available on local grids, sometimes a result of surplus solar and wind generation, process controls ensure that electrolysis chambers only freeze on the edges, allowing smelting to continue, albeit at lower capacity. In a sense, such a smelter acts as a form of battery on the grid.

    “It can really be a significant contribution to stabilizing the grid, so we should not ignore that opportunity,” says Sævarsdóttir.

    ...

    While electricity is responsible for a quarter of the world’s emissions, industry is close behind at 21%, according the IPCC.

    “Someone needs to work on the 21%. Everyone wants to work on renewable energy, but someone needs to work on this, otherwise we will not reach carbon neutrality… I think this is the biggest opportunity to help the climate.”
    YMLADRIS
    YMLADRIS --- ---
    China expanding weather-control program to make artificial rain, snow - Business Insider
    https://www.businessinsider.com/...ng-weather-modification-program-artificial-rain-snow-2025-2020-12

    China is massively expanding its weather-modification program, saying it will be able to cover half the country in artificial rain and snow by 2025

    "Cloud seeding" involves spraying chemicals like silver iodide or liquid nitrogen into clouds, where water droplets condense and fall.
    VOYTEX
    VOYTEX --- ---
    GOJATLA: polpotismus!
    (i kdyz v zapeti mi doslo, ze rudy khmerove vlastne vsichni v Parizi studovali, hehe)
    GOJATLA
    GOJATLA --- ---
    Paris to ‘get rid of 70,000 parking spaces’ | ITS International
    https://www.itsinternational.com/its3/news/paris-get-rid-70000-parking-spaces
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