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    TUHOKlimaticka zmena / Destroying the Future Is the Most Cost-Effective


    "Given the sheer enormity of climate change, it’s okay to be depressed, to grieve. But please, don’t stay there too long. Join me in pure, unadulterated, righteous anger."


    "I don’t want your hope. I don’t want you to be hopeful. I want you to panic. I want you to feel the fear I feel every day. And then I want you to act. Once you start to act, the hope is everywhere."

    "Our best scientists tell us insistently that a calamity is unfolding, that the life-support systems of the Earth are being damaged in ways that threaten our survival. Yet in the face of these facts we carry on as usual."

    “We’ve got to stop burning fossil fuels. So many aspects of life depend on fossil fuels, except for music and love and education and happiness. These things, which hardly use fossil fuels, are what we must focus on.”

    A nejde o to, že na to nemáme dostatečné technologie, ty by na řešení použít šly, ale chybí nám vůle a představivost je využít. Zůstáváme při zemi, přemýšlíme až moc rezervovaně. Technologický pokrok to sám o sobě nevyřeší. Problém jsme my, ne technologické nástroje.

    Rostouci hladiny oceanu, zmena atmosferickeho proudeni, zmeny v distribuci srazek a sucha. Zmeny karbonoveho, fosforoveho a dusikoveho cyklu, okyselovani oceanu. Jake jsou bezpecnostni rizika a jake potencialni klady dramatickych zmen fungovani zemskeho systemu?
    Ale take jak funguji masove dezinformacni kampane ropneho prumyslu a boj o verejne mineni na prahu noveho klimatickeho rezimu post-holocenu.
    rozbalit záhlaví
    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    Large Cloud Feedback Confirms High Climate Sensitivity
    https://mailchi.mp/caa/large-cloud-feedback-confirms-high-climate-sensitivity

    Earth is getting darker, reflecting back to space a decreasing portion of the sunlight incident on Earth. This provides crucial information on cloud changes and climate sensitivity. See - 14 May Large Cloud Feedback Confirms High Climate Sensitivity -

    “Earth’s albedo (reflectivity) declined over the 25 years of precise satellite data, with the decline so large that this change must be mainly reduced reflection of sunlight by clouds. Part of the cloud change is caused by reduction of human-made atmospheric aerosols, which act as condensation nuclei for cloud formation, but most of the cloud change is cloud feedback that occurs with global warming. The observed albedo change proves that clouds provide a large, amplifying, climate feedback. This large cloud feedback confirms high climate sensitivity, consistent with paleoclimate data and with the rate of global warming in the past century.”

    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    TADEAS:

    "The Mauna Loa observatory showed the first weekly average CO₂ concentration of >430 ppm in about 3 million years!

    "Including other greenhouse gases, the CO₂-equivalent is at >560 ppm. Which represents more than a doubling of preindustrial CO₂. Without aerosols, this would cause ~5°C of warming."

    https://x.com/LeonSimons8/status/1914424132680257893
    SHEFIK
    SHEFIK --- ---
    Dramatic cuts in China’s air pollution drove surge in global warming | New Scientist
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2474067-dramatic-cuts-in-chinas-air-pollution-drove-surge-in-global-warming/

    A recent surge in the rate of global warming has been largely driven by China’s efforts to reduce air pollution, raising questions about how air quality regulations are influencing the climate and whether we fully understand the impact of removing aerosols from the atmosphere. This extra warming, which was being masked by the aerosols, accounts for 5 per cent of global temperature increase since 1850.
    YMLADRIS
    YMLADRIS --- ---
    sira ve stratosfere - stephenson kritizuje projekt na detekci tohoto, protoze mu pripada spatne uzavirat si tuto cestu

    vymezuje se proti clanku v NYT

    Just to lay my cards on the table, I think that SRM should be investigated and possibly even implemented. But I don’t think it is likely to be, because people on the right and left both hate it. People on the right lump it in with chemtrails, and hate it for the same reasons (if that is the correct word) they now have now decided that the polio vaccine is bad. People on the left hate it because…well, I’ll get to that in a second. So I don’t think it will happen unless a Trumpian figure comes out in favor of it and pitches it to the populist base in a style that will make those people think it’s awesome.

    In other words, I think that this is largely an abstract debate that is more interesting as a case study in fallibilism than it is on its own merits.

    The NYT Article
    The article describes how some exceptionally smart and technically capable people are using their ingenuity and energy (and presumably taxpayer money) to set up a detection system that will enable them to blow the whistle on anyone who actually tries to implement SRM. This is because “[SRM] could also unleash untold dangers. Many worry that solar geoengineering could have unintended consequences.”

    I’m not going to pore over the article in detail because I try to keep these Substack entries reasonably short. But if we take it at face value, it seems that everyone mentioned in this story, as well as the journalist writing it, simply accepts the premise that even the smallest and most preliminary efforts that might be made towards studying SRM are so unthinkably reckless that the most important thing that they can possibly be devoting their careers to is creating sophisticated systems “to measure aerosol concentration and raise a red flag at any anomalies.”

    Geoengineering (Wrong 2) - by Neal Stephenson - Graphomane
    https://nealstephenson.substack.com/p/geoengineering

    Other methods to implement SRM have been proposed, such as using huge systems of balloons or firing enormous guns into the air. The only thing they have in common is that they are almost comically enormous. They have to be, since what they are trying to do is to replicated in a controlled manner some of the largest volcanic explosions in history.

    What then is the purpose of putting all of this ingenuity to work building these exquisitely sophisticated systems for detecting faint traces of aerosols in the stratosphere? The only explanation that makes any sense is that the goal is to sense even the tiniest and most preliminary exploratory efforts in the field of SRM. Experiments, basically. Programs that are, by definition, too small to actually change the climate. If someone were changing the climate, we’d know about it. We wouldn’t need high altitude balloons or WB-57s. We could just aim a webcam at the special airport where hundreds of weird planes were taking off every day.

    And it’s worth reiterating—because the level of anxiety about SRM is so high—that the purpose of those weird planes would not be to drop bombs, spray nerve gas, or strafe peasants, but to ameliorate, temporarily and reversibly, the effects of a completely uncontrolled and incredibly reckless geoengineering experiment that the human race has been engaging in for 200 years, and will continue to engage in for at least another 50 years, by dumping vast quantities of CO2 into the atmosphere and the oceans.

    A charge often levelled against environmentalists by the right is that tree-huggers are in some sense anti-technological and by extension anti-human. That they are in love with the idea of an unspoiled natural order and that anything humans do to change it is automatically bad.

    But that doesn’t explain this curiously asymmetrical reaction to, on the one hand, the very idea that some people might engage in preliminary studies of techniques intended to save humanity from the consequences of too much anthropogenic CO2 in the air, vs., on the other hand, the ongoing reality of what we are actually doing when we burn fossil fuels. I don’t understand how people who think this way are going to explain such positions when a million people are lying dead of heatstroke somewhere. The only way I can process it is to construe it as a kind of religious belief—an article of faith.
    SCHWEPZ
    SCHWEPZ --- ---
    CLOUD experiment resolves puzzle of new aerosol particles in upper troposphere | CERN
    https://home.cern/news/press-release/physics/cloud-experiment-resolves-puzzle-new-aerosol-particles-upper-troposphere

    Na klima planety Země působí spousta různých faktorů, z nichž některé se jen špatně zkoumají. Další dílek do mozaiky planetárního klimatického modelu, jenž zpřesní předpovědi vývoje klimatu, teď představili fyzici z CERNu.

    ▶ Experiment v CERNu odkryl chybějící dílek klimatického puzzle — ČT24 — Česká televize
    https://ct24.ceskatelevize.cz/clanek/veda/experiment-v-cernu-odkryl-chybejici-dilek-klimatickeho-puzzle-355926

    Klimatologie využívá ty nejmodernější vědecké postupy, pracuje s obrovským množstvím dat i nejpokročilejšími počítačovými modely. Přestože už odborníci dokáží předpovídat vývoj zemského klimatu s velkou přesností, stále narážejí na nejistoty. Jednou z těch největších je chování aerosolových částic v atmosféře, které se extrémně špatně zkoumá.

    Aerosoly v klimatickém systému Země hrají důležitou roli, protože vytvářejí mraky a ovlivňují jejich odrazivost i velikost. Většina aerosolů vzniká samovolnou kondenzací molekul, které jsou v atmosféře přítomné jenom v nepatrných koncentracích. Páry zodpovědné za jejich vznik ale nejsou dobře popsané, zejména ty ve vzdálených horních vrstvách troposféry.

    CERN's CLOUD experiment studies role of aerosols on clouds and climate
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DKzySbnCs0
    YMLADRIS
    YMLADRIS --- ---
    US staví systém na detekci geoinzenyringu

    The tool can also estimate the consequences of an aerosol injection, things like changes in surface temperatures, precipitation levels or soil moisture.

    “The effect will possibly last months, and even maybe a couple of years, depending on how much aerosols they’re injecting,” Dr. Swiler said. “Understanding what might happen two years hence — that is where we will have to rely on our modeling capabilities.”

    The United States is still years away from being ready to detect a solar geoengineering effort but is on the leading edge.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/28/climate/geoengineering-early-warning-system.html#
    PER2
    PER2 --- ---
    PER2: just matter of time...

    Solar Radiation Modification (SRM) refers to deliberate, large-scale actions intended to decrease global average surface temperatures by increasing the reflection of sunlight away from the Earth. Proposed SRM methods involve the use of aerosols (small particles) or other materials to increase the reflectivity of the atmosphere, clouds, or Earth’s surface.

    Solar radiation modification: NOAA State of the Science factsheet | NOAA Climate.gov
    https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/solar-radiation-modification-noaa-state-science-factsheet

    NOAA CSL Research: ERB
    https://csl.noaa.gov/research/erb/
    YMLADRIS
    YMLADRIS --- ---
    The government initiative is focused on testing several types of solar geoengineering. Those approaches could include injecting aerosols, such as sulfur dioxide, into the stratosphere or shooting sea-salt aerosols into low-lying marine clouds to reflect more sunlight away from the Earth.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/13/climate/united-kingdom-geoengineering-research.html
    CHOSIE
    CHOSIE --- ---
    James Hansen, asi není třeba představovat, dnes zveřejnil, společně s 2 spoluautory, článek.
    Comments on Global Warming Acceleration, Sulfur Emissions, Observations
    In this article, climate scientists James Hansen, Pushker Kharecha, and Makiko Sato discuss the acceleration of global warming. They note that global temperature continues to rise, reaching 1.56°C above pre-industrial levels as of April 2024. The authors attribute this acceleration to the decline in human-made aerosols, particularly from the shipping industry, which previously had a cooling effect on the Earth.

    The reduction in aerosols, combined with the strong warming trend at middle latitudes and the switch from La Nina to El Nino conditions in the Pacific Ocean, has led to a significant temperature jump in 2023-24. The authors emphasize the importance of accurately evaluating the impact of human-made aerosols on the climate, as it has implications for understanding climate sensitivity.

    They call for further research and modeling to better understand the complex interactions between aerosols, clouds, and the Earth's climate system. The authors also stress the need for continued monitoring of the Earth's radiation balance to improve our understanding of the factors driving global warming acceleration.
    Link
    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    Wildfires in Siberia are a growing global threat • Earth.com
    https://www.earth.com/news/wildfires-in-siberia-are-a-growing-global-threat/

    The simulations revealed that the increased intensity of wildfires in Siberia could lead to significant atmospheric changes, notably a cooling effect across the northern hemisphere. This phenomenon is largely due to the aerosols, or tiny air pollution particles, emitted by the fires which can reflect sunlight away from the earth’s surface.

    Professor Teppei Yasunari, a key member of the research team, explained: “Our modeling reveals a cooling effect broadly across the northern hemisphere and worsened air quality in extensive downwind regions.”
    PER2
    PER2 --- ---
    a jedeem

    Geoengineering Test Quietly Launches Salt Crystals into Atmosphere | Scientific American
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/geoengineering-test-quietly-launches-salt-crystals-into-atmosphere/

    The nation's first outdoor test to limit global warming by increasing cloud cover launched Tuesday from the deck of a decommissioned aircraft carrier in the San Francisco Bay.

    The experiment, which organizers didn't widely announce to avoid public backlash, marks the acceleration of a contentious field of research known as solar radiation modification. The concept involves shooting substances such as aerosols into the sky to reflect sunlight away from the Earth.
    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    Global Warming Acceleration: Hope vs Hopium
    https://mailchi.mp/caa/global-warming-acceleration-hope-vs-hopium

    Accumulating evidence supports the interpretation in our Pipeline paper: decreasing human-made aerosols increased Earth’s energy imbalance and accelerated global warming in the past decade. Climate sensitivity and aerosol forcing, physically independent quantities, were tied together by United Nations IPCC climate assessments that rely excessively on global climate models (GCMs) and fail to measure climate forcing by aerosols. IPCC’s best estimates for climate sensitivity and aerosol forcing both understate reality. Preservation of global shorelines and global climate patterns – the world humanity is adapted to – likely will require at least partly reversing global warming. Required actions and time scale are undefined. A bright future for today’s young people is still possible, but its attainment is hampered by precatory (wishful thinking) policies that do not realistically account for global energy needs and aspirations of nations with emerging economies. An alternative is needed to the GCM-dominated perspective on climate science. We will bear a heavy burden if we stand silent or meek as the world continues on its present course.
    YMLADRIS
    YMLADRIS --- ---
    dvě studie

    1. že když se aerosol engineering začne až při vysoké globální teplotě, už to nepomůže na ten AMOC problém a celkově oceány, protože vodě trvá dlouho než se přizpůsobí změnám v teplotě vzduchu. Jako že "start soon".

    2. dehydratace atmosféry, seeding clouds / změny ve vodní páře vyšly v nové studii jako že by měly jen malý efekt (je to druhá metoda o které se uvažuje)

    takže "je to špatný nápad (aerosols injection), ale udělá se to, protože je to nejlevnější. Odclonit antropo přírustek teploty by stálo 30 miliard dolarů ročně, tj částku kterou američani vydávají na žrádlo pro domácí mazlíčky."

    We Need to Start Climate Engineering Soon, New Study Says
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZiEcx0F_CM


    PETER_PAN: UN mělo teď setkání v Nairobi na téma climate engineering without reaching any conclusions (research, ban or just do it?).
    Jak jsi psal že není pravděpodobné, že by se to povolilo.
    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    PALEONTOLOG: tak sem nahazej nejaky relevantni zdroje a posun debatu .]

    zatim mi neni zrejmy, ze by ten negativni impakt byl negativnejsi nez impakt soucasnyho geoingeneeringu uhlikovyho cyklu

    to jaky presne to bude mit impakt je zatim celkem nejasne z toho co jsem si prolustroval, bude zalezit i na metode a kam se to vypusti


    What goes up must come down: impacts of deposition in a sulfate geoengineering scenario - IOPscience
    https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab94eb?ref=the-wave.net

    The problem of reducing the impacts of rising anthropogenic greenhouse gas on warming temperatures has led to the proposal of using stratospheric aerosols to reflect some of the incoming solar radiation back to space. The deliberate injection of sulfur into the stratosphere to form stratospheric sulfate aerosols, emulating volcanoes, will result in sulfate deposition to the surface. We consider here an extreme sulfate geoengineering scenario necessary to maintain temperatures at 2020 levels while greenhouse gas emissions continue to grow unabated. We show that the amount of stratospheric sulfate needed could be globally balanced by the predicted decrease in tropospheric anthropogenic SO2 emissions, but the spatial distribution would move from industrialized regions to pristine areas. We show how these changes would affect ecosystems differently depending on present day observations of soil pH, which we use to infer the potential for acid-induced aluminum toxicity across the planet.


    The potential environmental and climate impacts of stratospheric aerosol injection: a review - Environmental Science: Atmospheres (RSC Publishing) DOI:10.1039/D3EA00134B
    https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlehtml/2024/ea/d3ea00134b
    TADEAS
    TADEAS --- ---
    “Cooling credits” are not a viable climate solution | Climatic Change
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10584-023-03561-w

    As the world struggles to limit warming to 1.5 or 2 °C below pre-industrial temperatures, research into solar climate interventions that could temporarily offset some amount of greenhouse gas-driven global warming by reflecting more sunlight back out to space has gained prominence. These solar climate intervention techniques would aim to cool the Earth by injecting aerosols (tiny liquid or solid particles suspended in the atmosphere) into the upper atmosphere or into low-altitude marine clouds. In a new development, “cooling credits” are now being marketed that claim to offset a certain amount of greenhouse gas warming with aerosol-based cooling. The science of solar climate intervention is currently too uncertain and the quantification of effects insufficient for any such claims to be credible in the near term. More fundamentally, however, the environmental impacts of greenhouse gases and aerosols are too different for such credits to be an appropriate instrument for reducing climate risk even if scientific uncertainties were narrowed and robust monitoring systems put in place. While some form of commercial mechanism for solar climate intervention implementation, in the event it is used, is likely, “cooling credits” are unlikely to be a viable climate solution, either now or in the future.
    TUHO
    TUHO --- ---
    TUHO: Hodim sem rovnou celej komentar Schmidta

    Gavin Schmidt
    @ClimateOfGavin
    Nicely explained. A few points that might help explain why I’m still sticking to the 2.5 to 4°C number though.
    1. The screened set of models is a still a better fit to the recent historical data - even including 2023 (and what we expect for 2024).
    2. The tests of whether the ‘hot models’ can match the paleo climate changes such as the last glacial maximum have not been successful. There are AFAIK no published LGM runs with the Hadley Centre Model (UKESM), nor the DOE model, etc. For CESM2 there is, but it’s far too cold.
    3. This isn’t to claim that we know everything about lgm aerosols or clouds - we don’t. But the range of things we’d have to adjust or reimagine in order to make the high ECS models work are legion. It could happen, but all of the elements need to go in the same direction.
    YMLADRIS
    YMLADRIS --- ---
    XCHAOS: myslí se, se aerosoly jsou fakt problematický nápad (viz video od kurzgesagtu "geoengineering") ale že se to stejně udělá, protože je to mnohem levnější než carbon capture nebo vypnout fosil.

    Paleontolog zas napíše že přece kyselé deště nikdo nechce, LOL

    --

    https://twitter.com/skdh/status/1741005047679328595
    Sabine

    When is it going to happen? Guessing at around the time warming creeps from 2.0 to 2.5 with 3.0 in sight which I suspect will happen much sooner than the IPCC projections might lead you to expect, probably before 2040.

    First thing to happen is that some country, most likely the USA will pull an emergency break by spraying aerosols in the atmosphere. Why the USA? Because they (a) are naturally in a location with more climate extremes than Europe and by 2.5 degrees of warming their economic losses will be painful, (b) they have the money and the infrastructure to make it happen, and (c) the whole world-leading and pioneering thing is totally in American character.
    TUHO
    TUHO --- ---
    Safe and just Earth System Boundaries

    Abstract
    The stability and resilience of the Earth system and human well-being are inseparably linked1,2,3, yet their interdependencies are generally under-recognized; consequently, they are often treated independently4,5. Here, we use modelling and literature assessment to quantify safe and just Earth system boundaries (ESBs) for climate, the biosphere, water and nutrient cycles, and aerosols at global and subglobal scales. We propose ESBs for maintaining the resilience and stability of the Earth system (safe ESBs) and minimizing exposure to significant harm to humans from Earth system change (a necessary but not sufficient condition for justice)4. The stricter of the safe or just boundaries sets the integrated safe and just ESB. Our findings show that justice considerations constrain the integrated ESBs more than safety considerations for climate and atmospheric aerosol loading. Seven of eight globally quantified safe and just ESBs and at least two regional safe and just ESBs in over half of global land area are already exceeded. We propose that our assessment provides a quantitative foundation for safeguarding the global commons for all people now and into the future.

    Safe and just Earth system boundaries | Nature
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06083-8
    YMLADRIS
    YMLADRIS --- ---
    https://twitter.com/skdh/status/1741005047679328595

    Sabine je fyzička, janevim no, IMHO tým aerosols vypadá teď nejvíc plausible

    When is it going to happen? Guessing at around the time warming creeps from 2.0 to 2.5 with 3.0 in sight which I suspect will happen much sooner than the IPCC projections might lead you to expect, probably before 2040.

    First thing to happen is that some country, most likely the USA will pull an emergency break by spraying aerosols in the atmosphere. Why the USA? Because they (a) are naturally in a location with more climate extremes than Europe and by 2.5 degrees of warming their economic losses will be painful, (b) they have the money and the infrastructure to make it happen, and (c) the whole world-leading and pioneering thing is totally in American character.
    TUHO
    TUHO --- ---
    Soviet and Russian perspectives on geoengineering and climate management

    Soviet science contributed significantly to our understanding of anthropogenic climate change and, as part of this, played a central role in the emerging science underpinning climate modification and geoengineering initiatives. A key focus of discussion was the use of stratospheric aerosols linked to the innovative ideas of Mikhail Budyko and colleagues. This work had its origins in what has been termed the theory of aerosol climatic catastrophe, which gained prominence in the Soviet context during the early 1970s. Following the breakup of the Soviet Union, the ideas of Budyko concerning the use of stratospheric aerosols were advanced by Yuri Izrael and his collaborators. The associated body of work gained traction during the 2000s and engendered a wider debate concerning the efficacy of geoengineering solutions amongst Russia's climate scientists. The legacies of this scientific discussion are also evident in recent high-level international debates such as those linked to the activities of the IPCC. While significant geopolitical obstacles remain in the way of an international agreement linked to the possible deployment of geoengineering measures, interest continues to grow. The maturity of Russian science in the area of geoengineering and climate modification ensures that it remains an important voice within the broader scientific debate. At the same time, the progressive isolation of Russian science from the international scene due to wider geopolitical events risks deflecting attention away from contemporary popular and political debate in this area and alienating this rich scientific tradition at a critical juncture.

    https://wires.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wcc.829
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