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    ELDAGrafické techniky - knihtisk, dřevoryt, linoryt, mědiryt, lept, litografie, sítotisk, fotogravura atd.
    NAMATHUR
    NAMATHUR --- ---
    ELDA: ad kvalita t.o. - litr terpentynaku v postacujici kvalite se da sehnat za 60 - 110 K, podle dodavatele, nejvic asi zalezi na kvalitni filtraci

    a stran nadseni - holt zajimava technika s mnohosti moznosti (osvit+ryti, trapeni citlive vrstvy ruznymi rozpoustedly a tak), ktere neuziju (jsem otrokem cizi kariery :-), ale nekdo jinej by moh
    ELDA
    ELDA --- ---
    doufam ze vysledek bude roven "Judea of Bitumen", jinaks prekladal marne... Coze te ten asfalt tak nadchnul? Myslis opravdu ze vrstva s nekvalitnim t.o bude tak heterogenní?
    NAMATHUR
    NAMATHUR --- ---
    ELDA: pomery - nejsou. bral bych to tak, ze bych tam nalil zhruba objemovej trojnasobek t.o. a po nekolika dnech zkontroloval konzistenci, kdyztak pak pridat rozpoustedlo, pokud by to bylo husty.

    prave, ze potrebujes co nejkvalitnejsi nater - aby byla opticka vrstva homogenni.

    dneska to doprelozim a mozna prihodim pro nazornost nejaky nakresy. Pokud najdu pomery, nebudu je tajit :)
    ELDA
    ELDA --- ---
    pomery P.A a T.O tam nestoji? Ja bych to asi mel rozpoustet Benzolem, ale mozna na tom nezalezi... To jsem tedy zvedavej... Trebas ani nepotrebuju kvalitni T.O, vzdyt to nebudu pouzivat pro nater...
    ELDA
    ELDA --- ---
    NAMATHUR: si toho udelam mene, co kdybych to zkurvil...
    ELDA
    ELDA --- ---
    NAMATHUR: to jsem ani necekal ze je toho tolik...
    NAMATHUR
    NAMATHUR --- ---
    ELDA:
    No. 3

    Pokud nechame roztok nerusene stat ve velke nadobe, pak i kdyz jsme pouzili ten nejlepsi PA a nejlepsi t.o., zacne se z nej vylucovat husta polotekuta vrstva, kterou ani velke mnozstvi pridaneho t.o. neprimeje ke zmene v ocekavanou homogenni kapalinu. Ma se za to, ze tato usazenina je tvorena predevsim nerozpustnymi nebo temer nerozpustnymi slozkami PA, jez o svou rozpustnost prisly nejspise pusobenim svetla (pozn.: skladovat ve hnedem skle, nejlepe se spodnim vypustnym kohoutem, i tak se tomuto nevyhnes, ale alespon omezis). Po delsim stani je pred dalsi praci tedy nutno tuto vrstvu opatrne odcerpat, nejlepe, byt stale ne dokonale, pozornym stocenim. Pronblem se da vyrazne omezit filtraci roztoku okamzite po jeho vytvoreni, a to jednoduchou a celkem uspokojivou metodou:
    roztok se pripravi ve velke nadobe (soudku) lezici na boku s dirou tak 20 cm v prumeru v horni casti. Do otvoru se nacpe dobre tesnici zatka, na jejiz spodni strane je upevnen hak. Asfalt budiz vsypan do huste tkaneho vaku, ten se pak vlozi do dals
    iho pytliku z tehoz materialu. Prumer vnejsiho obalu by mel byt takovy, aby bez problemu prosel dirou v nadobe, jeho delka pak takova, aby jeho dno bylo po zaveseni na zmineny hak asi 20 cm nad spodkem nadoby. Nadoba se pak naplni t.o. a necha v klidu nekolik dni. T.O. zacne pronikat platnem a rozpoustet PA, roztok, tezsi nez samotny t.o. zacne samovolne klesat dolu, cestou se bude pres platno filtrovat. Po vytazeni vaku a jeho odkapani v nem zbudou nerozpustne slozky a zbude nam roztok v uspokojive cistote. Pokud se pouzil praskovy PA (tvuj pripad), zustane v pytliku prekvapive male mnozstvy polotekuteho zbytku, ktery je po naredeni t.o. velice kvalitnim impregnacnim naterem na drevo (nutno nanaset HRUBOU silou :-)

    pokr. priste
    NAMATHUR
    NAMATHUR --- ---
    ELDA: Nejvhodnejsim rozpoustedlem bude pravdepodobne terpentynova silice (tedy nikoli olej, jak jsem predtim blbe prelozil, nicmene pod timto oznacenim se da take sehnat), ktera PA rozpousti temer beze zbytku, vznikne nam nater ktery zasycha dostatecne rychle a vyznacuje se vynikajici kryvosti, pokud pouzijeme kvalitne rektifikovany terpentyn. Terpentyn budiz "vodove bily" az zcela bezbarvy, silne lomici svetlo a prijemne vonici (TO TEDA :-) bez kouroveho nadechu ci zavoje. Pulcentimetrova vrstva by se mela odparit v kratkem case naprosto beze zbytku, na sklenene misce by nemel zustat ani flicek. (Pozn.: pri mnozstvi, ktere bude potreba na to kilo téru, se pri nakupu kvalitni t.s. malinko prohnes, postup pro rektifikaci napr. http://www.sweb.cz/olejomalby/rady.htm )
    ELDA
    ELDA --- ---
    diky!!!
    NAMATHUR
    NAMATHUR --- ---
    ELDA:
    žádné z rozpouštědel nerozpouští přírodní asfalt (PA) beze zbytku. Ethanol rozpouští pouze jeho malo část, éter pak mnohem větší podíl. Nejlepšími rozpouštědly jsou benzol, benzin, rektifikovaný petrolej, esenciální oleje a chloroform, které zanechávají pouze malý nerozpustný zbytek. Užití éteru jako rozpouštědla se nedoporučuje vzhledem k jeho nízkému bodu varu - 36 °C - a těkavosti. Nátěr zasychá ještě pod štětcem. Chloroform tuto nevýhodu nemá, ale pro běžné užití je příliš drahý. V rektifikovaném petroleji se PA rozpouští velice dobře, ale jakožto složka nátěru není zrovna žádoucí, neboť i přesto, že se jej velká část brzy odpaří, zůstává z něj trocha méně těkavých látek obvykle přítomných i v tom nejčistším petroleji, jejichž vinou zůstává vrstva nátěru lepkavá i po značné době (bavíme se o týdnech se všemi komplikacemi - prach, nerovnost nátěru...) a jež zanechávají protivný zápach po dobu ještě delší.Běžný dehtový benzin také rozpouší PA velice dobře, jeho nespornou výhodou je též láce, avšak vzhledem k jeho vysoké těkavosti nátěr zasychá příliš rychle, obzvláště v létě (podzimní sychrava jsou dobrá - NUTNO VĚTRAT!)

    pokracovani zanedlouho
    ELDA
    ELDA --- ---
    NAMATHUR: tam to ale bude asi take strucne. Mam jednu knihu o polygrafii jeste do ni pro jistotu kouknu... Problemem je, ze se ta technika asi vubec nevyuzivala. Byla nahrazena Daugerotypii a tim procesem s zelatinou:( Myslim ale ze pro experimenty mam uz informaci dost... Proste koupim levandulovy olej a vyrobim podle toho co vyctes z "Asphalt Varnishes" Bitumen of Judea... Akorat doufam, ze to na zaver nevybouchne;DDD
    NAMATHUR
    NAMATHUR --- ---
    ELDA: jeste me napadlo - projed si Ottovu encyklopedii, prece je je z doby rozmachu heliocehokoli blizsi!
    ELDA
    ELDA --- ---
    NAMATHUR: to jsi hodnej - diky moc! Našel jsem take todle ale radeji bych ten svuj pytlik syrskeho asfaltu vyuzil... http://www.fineartpaints.com/product/J0328001b
    ELDA
    ELDA --- ---
    NAMATHUR: zda se ze se moc neprodava, tedy google docela prazdny:(
    NAMATHUR
    NAMATHUR --- ---
    ELDA: S Asphalt Varnishes se ozvu zitra, vypada to zajimave, vezmu si to do vlaku
    NAMATHUR
    NAMATHUR --- ---
    Dippelův olej (někdy označovaný jako kostní olej) je dusíkatý vedlejší produkt destruktivní destilace živočišného uhlí . Jde o tmavou, vysoce viskózní kapalinu s nepříjemným zápachem pojmenovanou po svém vynálezci, Johannu Conradu Dippelovi. Bází oleje je pyrrol.

    Dippelův olej měl spoustu použití, které jsou nyní většinou zastaralé, medicíně, jako denaturační složka alkoholu Patřily k nim lékařské účely [2], použití jako denaturační přísada do alkoholu, repelent a insekticid. Dokonce do toho namáčeli ovce, aby nebyly zahmyzené :-)
    ELDA
    ELDA --- ---
    Co je to Dippel’s oil? Zda se ze se to da spolecne s terpentinem pouzivat misto citronoveho nebo levanduloveho oleje... Vizte->>

    Niépce had been involved with etching and lithography and was looking for a means to make etched plates without having to depend on skilled handwork. It is probable that he and others would have noticed that the asphalt etching ground was harder to remove with solvents when printing plates were exposed to the sun. He coated lithographic stones and plates of copper, pewter, zinc, and glass with asphaltum dissolved in oil of lavender. When the asphalt dried, the plates were covered with an object and exposed to light. Th e unexposed areas were
    then dissolved with a solvent such as Dippel’s oil, lavender oil, or turpentine while the hardened exposed areas remained intact, creating a negative image. Why Niépce did not use his asphalt images on glass as negatives to make positive prints on silver chloride paper remains a mystery to photographic historians and scholars.
    Niépce eventually placed waxed engravings in contact with these sensitive plates. After the unexposed areas were removed with a solvent, the plate negative image of the engraving was visible. Th e plate was then etched with acid and ubsequently used as a conventional etching plate for printing in a press. Niépce called these plates heliographs, from the Greek words helios and graphos, meaning “sun drawing.” Th e process eventually became the conceptual cornerstone of the photo-engraving industry.
    Of all the heliographic plates made by Niépce, the only known surviving example made in a camera has become an icon of photographic history. In 1826 Niépce prepared a heliograph with a thinner asphalt coating upon polished pewter. Th is plate was exposed in a camera facing out the window of his estate, known as Le Gras (Figures 15–17). Th e “View from the Window at Le Gras,” now in the Gernsheim collection at the Harry Ransom Center in Austin, Texas, probably
    took two days of exposure to record the outline of the horizon and the most primitive architectural elements of several buildings outside and below the window. Niépce’s image is both negative and positive depending on how it is illuminated, and it is permanent.
    ELDA
    ELDA --- ---
    Ted jsem se docetl i puvod Niepceho pokusu. Tato technika byla vyuzivana starymi egyptany pro zachovani mumii. Proste smichaly syrsky asfalt (asi ten vycisteny, benzol) s levandulovym olejem, obvaz mumie do toho ponorily. Pak stacilo mumii strcit na par hodin na slunce a prvni heliogravura byla na svete:)

    Nevycte z toho anglickeho textu "Asphalt Varnishes" jak mam ten svuj kilovy pytlik syrskeho asfaltu vycistit nebo zprovoznit:DDD
    ELDA
    ELDA --- ---
    Asphalt Varnishes

    Natural asphalt is not entirely soluble in any liquid. Alcohol dissolves only a small percentage of it, ether a much larger proportion. The best solvents are benzol, benzine, rectified petroleum, the essential oils, and chloroform, which leave only a small residue undissolved. The employment of ether as a solvent is impracticable because of its low boiling point, 97° F., and great volatility. The varnish would dry almost under the brush. Chloroform is not open to this objection, but it is too expensive for ordinary use. Rectified petroleum is a good solvent of asphalt, but it is not a desirable ingredient of varnish because, though the greater part of it soon evaporates, a small quantity of less volatile substances, which is usually present in even the most thoroughly rectified petroleum, causes the varnish to remain "tacky" for a considerable time and to retain a disagreeable odor much longer. Common coal-tar benzine is also a good solvent and has the merit of cheapness, but its great volatility makes the varnish dry too quickly for convenient use, especially in summer.

    The best solvent, probably, is oil of turpentine, which dissolves asphalt almost completely, producing a varnish which dries quickly and forms a perfect coating if the turpentine has been well rectified. The turpentine should be a "water white," or entirely colorless, liquid of strong optical refractive power and agreeable odor, without a trace of smokiness. A layer 1/5 of an inch in depth should evaporate in a short time so completely as to leave no stain on a glass dish.

    But even solutions of the best Syrian asphalt in the purest oil of turpentine, if they are allowed to stand undisturbed for a long time in large vessels, deposit a thick, semi-fluid precipitate which a large addition of oil of turpentine fails to convert into a uniform thin liquid. It may be assumed that this deposit consists of an insoluble or nearly insoluble part of the asphalt which, perhaps, has been deprived of solubility by the action of light. Hence, in order to obtain a uniform solution, this thick part must be removed. This can be done, though imperfectly, by carefully decanting the solution after it has stood for a long time in large vessels. This tedious and troublesome process may be avoided by filtering the solution as it is made, by the following simple and quite satisfactory method: The solution is made in a large cask, lying on its side, with a round hole about 8 inches in diameter in its upper bilge. This opening is provided with a well-fitting cover, to the bottom of which a hook is attached. The asphalt is placed in a bag of closely woven canvas, which is inclosed in a second bag of the same material. The diameter of the double bag, when filled, should be such as to allow it to pass easily through the opening in the cask, and its length such that, when it is hung on the hook, its lower end is about 8 inches above the bottom of the cask. The cask is then filled with rectified oil of turpentine, closed, and left undisturbed for several days. The oil of turpentine penetrates into the bag and dissolves the asphalt, and the solution, which is heavier than pure oil of turpentine, exudes through the canvas and sinks to the bottom of the cask. Those parts of the asphalt which are quite insoluble, or merely swell in the oil of turpentine, cannot pass through the canvas, and are removed with the bag, leaving a perfect solution. When all soluble portions have been dissolved, the bag, with the cover, is raised and hung over the opening to drain. If pulverized asphalt has been used the bag is found to contain only a small quantity of semi-fluid residue. This, thinned with oil of turpentine and applied with a stiff brush and considerable force, forms a thick, weather-resisting, and very durable coating for planks, etc.

    The proportion of asphalt to oil of turpentine is so chosen as to produce, in the cask, a pretty thick varnish, which may be thinned to any desired degree by adding more turpentine. For use, it should be just thick enough to cover bright tin and entirely conceal the metal with a single coat. When dry, this coat is very thin, but it adheres very firmly, and continually increases in hardness, probably because of the effect of light. This supposition is supported by the difficulty of removing an old coat of asphalt varnish, which will not dissolve in turpentine even after long immersion, and usually must be removed by mechanical means.

    For a perfect, quick-drying asphalt varnish-the purest asphalt must be used, such as Syrian, or the best Trinidad. Trinidad seconds, though better than some other asphalts, yield an inferior varnish, owing to the presence of impurities.

    Of artificial asphalt, the best for this purpose is the sort known as "mineral caoutchouc," which is especially suitable for the manufacture of elastic dressings for leather and other flexible substances. For wood and metal it is less desirable, as it never becomes as hard as natural asphalt.
    ELDA
    ELDA --- ---
    NAMATHUR: zda se mi ze to bude take strucne... Mozna poridim http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/3000167579?ie=UTF8&tag=2003linksfurl-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1638&creative=6742&creativeASIN=3000167579 v te to myslim popsane je. Nemate tu knihu take na sklade? Nebo bys mohl lehce pripomenout ze ji fakulta nema, a upozornit ze je to hozna hanba;))
    NAMATHUR
    NAMATHUR --- ---
    zkusim se poptat na fakulte (Fulkova me ted na rada :) zda bych si nemoh vypujcit a, ehm, ukrast
    Kliknutím sem můžete změnit nastavení reklam