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    WHITESCORPIOThe Dune - Kultovní dílo Franka Herberta a vše okolo - see HOME!
    BUG
    BUG --- ---
    VODNIK: nojo sem dement uz to vidim:-) dik moc:-) jeste zkusim to forum kde snad najdu vsechny dily i v jiny nez pdb verui....
    VODNIK
    VODNIK --- ---
    BUG: nevím co jsi prošel, ale na nástěnce zmíněné diskuze je eknihovna.com, kde Duna je, na ebookforum je pochopitelně taky. Tak nevím, co ještě chceš...
    BUG
    BUG --- ---
    VODNIK: prosel sem toho hromadu a nikde nic (tim jako myslim ze vsude spousta vseho ale duna nikde)....nejakej dalsi napad? (proste me napadlo ze kdyz to tu je v en verzi tak by to nekde mohlo bejt i v cz verzi)
    VODNIK
    VODNIK --- ---
    BUG: místní diskuze o elektronických knihách, nástěnka. Případně se to jistě najde i na http://www.ebookforum.org/
    BUG
    BUG --- ---
    TAURUS: nemate nekdo pls Dunu (klasik 1 dil) v el podobe v cestine?
    TAURUS
    TAURUS --- ---
    Tak to dejte na nástěnku :-)
    DR_K
    DR_K --- ---
    a za dalsich 11 prispevku to nekdo pastnete znova, ju? udelame si z toho takovou zertovnou hru ;)
    TAURUS
    TAURUS --- ---
    Všechny možné knihy od FH, nejen Duna. I předehry, legendy a podobně.

    http://rapidshare.com/files/40501587/Herbert__Frank.rar
    ULRIK
    ULRIK --- ---
    A já si to přečtu vše od začátku...tohle mne navnadilo, dík:)
    WIPER
    WIPER --- ---
    Stryx: to rozhodne ano! A pohovorie o nich s trochou koreni v dymce... ;-D

    Tady dalsi perlicka. Trefne pozorovani FH ohledne naseo legalniho radu:

    "That's the test, Duncan."
    "You don't trust me?"
    "I trust your loyalty to the Atreides implicitly, without question."
    "Then what's this talk of corruption and testing?"
    "You were the one who accused me of having a police force. Police always observe
    that criminals prosper. It takes a pretty dull policeman to miss the fact that
    the position of authority is the most prosperous criminal position available."

    Idaho wet his lips with his tongue and stared at Leto with obvious puzzlement.
    "But the moral training of... I mean, the legal . . . the prisons to. . ."
    "What good are laws and prisons when the breaking of a law is not a sin?"
    Idaho cocked his head slightly to the right. "Are you trying to tell me that
    your damned religion is.. ."
    "Punishment of sins can be quite extravagant."
    Idaho hooked a thumb over his shoulder toward the world
    outside the door. "All this talk about death penalties . . . that flogging
    and..."
    "I try to dispense with casual laws and prisons wherever possible."
    "You have to have some prisons!"
    "Do I? Prisons are needed only to provide the illusion that courts and police
    are effective. They're a kind of job insurance."


    Ku pozornosti take stoji spousta postrehu ktere videl FH v nasme svete a slovy svych postav o nich promlouva.


    ---

    Navic celym Bozskym imperatorem se tahne myslenka zakon vs. moralka (moralni kodex). FH poukazuje na to, ze moralni kodex obazeny v nabozenstvi, je "imprintovan" diteti podstate drive nez je schopno pochopit "legalni pravni rad". Spravne naimrintovane nabozenstvi se vykonava bez otazek a premysleni. Proto je to take "vira". Tedy pokud je nas moralni kodex obsazen v nabozenstvi, je tady jista sance ze bude dodzovan. Navic hrich vs. poruseni zakona ma jeste jednu dimensi. Jak se rika, zlocin je "to" jen kdyz se na "to" prijde. Ale buh vidi vsechno. Pred nim je zlocinem kazdy hrich a nelze se vyhnout odpovednosti, jako pred "pravnim radem".

    STRYX
    STRYX --- ---
    Ja si ty dalsi dily asi budu muset precist... ;o)
    WIPER
    WIPER --- ---
    Aaah, nevim jak je to mozne, ale mam pocit ze Dune od Franak Herberta me jako me osobni filosoficky provodce intelektualnimi namety naprosto fascinuje.

    Zde male zamysleni Franak Herberta na tema AI. V dialogu BG a Bozskeho imperatora.


    "And you do not fear the lxians' machine?" Anteac insisted.
    "Is automation synonymous with conscious intelligence?" he asked.
    Anteac's eyes went wide and filmy as she withdrew into her memories. Leto found
    himself caught by fascination with what she must be encountering there within
    her own internal mob.
    We share some of those memories, he thought.
    Leto felt then the seductive attraction of community with Reverend Mothers. It
    would be so familiar, so supportive. . . and so deadly. Anteac was trying to
    lure him once more.
    She spoke: "The machine cannot anticipate every problem of importance to humans.
    It is the difference between serial bits and an unbroken continuum. We have the
    one; machines are confined to the other."
    "You still have the power of reason," he said.
    "Share!" Luyseyal said. It was a command to Anteac and it revealed with sharp
    abruptness who really dominated this pair-the younger over the older.
    Exquisite, Leto thought.
    "Intelligence adapts," Anteac said.
    Parsimonious with her words, too, Leto thought, hiding his amusement.
    "Intelligence creates," Leto said. "That means you must deal with responses
    never before imagined. You must confront the new."
    "Such as the possibility of the Ixian Machine," Anteac said. It was not a
    question.
    "Isn't it interesting," Leto asked, "that being a superb Reverend Mother is not
    enough?"
    His acute senses detected the sudden fearful tightening in both of the women.
    Truthsayers, indeed!
    "You are right to fear me," he said. Raising his voice, he demanded: "How do you
    know you're even alive?"
    As Moneo had done so many times, they heard in his voice the deadly consequences
    of failure to answer him correctly. It fascinated Leto that both women glanced
    at Moneo before either responded.
    "I am the mirror of myself," Luyseyal said, a pat Bene Gesserit answer which
    Leto found offensive.
    "I don't need pre-set tools to deal with my human problems." Anteac said. "Your
    question is sophomoric`."

    "Hah, hah!" Leto laughed. "How would you like to quit the Bene Gesserit and join
    me'?"
    He could see her consider and then reject the invitation, but she did not hide
    her amusement.

    Zvlaste tucna cast texu ukazuje, ze Frank Herber byl vzdelany clovek a filosof. Alistair a Stryx jiste opet poznavaji casti z GEB o zrcadleni a "circular reasoning" ;-D
    WIPER
    WIPER --- ---
    A tady je dalsi naprosto vymazleny dialog, nasledujici po pokusu BG o zavrazdeni Bozkehe Imperatora... ;-)

    "You have misread the history of spice-essence," Leto said. "Sandtrout sense it
    only as water."
    "It was a test, Lord," Anteac said. "That is all."
    "You would test me?"
    "Blame our curiosity, Lord," Anteac said.
    "I, too, am curious. Put your spice-essence on the ledge beside Moneo. I will
    keep it."
    Slowly, demonstrating by the steadiness of her movements that she intended no
    attack, Luyseyal reached beneath her gown and removed a small vial which
    glistened with an inner blue radiance. She placed the vial gently on the ledge.
    Not by any sign did she indicate that she might try something desperate.
    "Truthsayer, indeed," Leto said.
    She favored him with a faint grimace which might have been a smile, then
    withdrew to Anteac's side.
    "Where did you get the spice-essence?" Leto asked.
    "We bought it from smugglers," Anteac said.
    "There've been no smugglers for almost twenty-five hundred years."
    "Waste not, want not," Anteac said.
    WIPER
    WIPER --- ---
    DUNAR_: ano dekuji za nhravku na smec... :o)

    samozrejmne ze NECHYBI :-) protoze zadne nejsou. Nebo alespon ne tak jak si to predstavuje hamburgrozrout Brian.

    Ale ted zpet do rozkryvani zahrad dila Franka Herberta...

    Bozsky imerator se zda byt plny malych stripku. Zde nachazim poprve zminky o "siti" coz mi napadne pripomina presne tu "sit" kterou zminuje Duncan Idaho tesne pred skokem ARKY do neprostoru v poslednim dile... Sit ktera je nejakym zpusobem se zminovanym nepritelem? Co zije ve svete snu a vzpominek? Nepritel je samozrejmne neco vnitrniho. Neco co lezi v nas a musime to "porazit". Klasice "face you own inner deamons"



    Ritual substitutes.
    There were significant changes across the past ten years. A new parsimony had
    entered the Sisterhood's thinking.
    They are coming out, Leto told himself. The old, old mysteries are still here.
    The ancient patterns had lain dormant in the Bene Gesserit memories for all of
    those millennia.
    Now, they emerge. I must warn my Fish Speakers.
    He returned his attention to the Reverend Mothers.
    "You have requests?"
    "What is it like to be you'?" Luyseyal asked.
    Leto blinked. That was an interesting attack. They had not tried it in more than
    a generation. Well . . . why not?
    "Sometimes my dreams are blocked off and redirected into strange places," he
    said. "If my cosmic memories are a web, as you two certainly know, then think
    about the dimensions of my web and where such memories and dreams might lead."



    Jinak ten dilog je cely dokonale vymazleny. :-) Tak co, nejaky ten srazek a pokec? Nejak zacinam byt osamnely. I ti chudaci co lusti moudrost z tory a bible maji spolecnost se kterou si o tom povidaji ;)
    WIPER
    WIPER --- ---
    Co dat nejake duarskej srazek v Praze? Zase jsem pustil do cteni Bozkeho Imperatora. Jsem s toho nejakej nameko ;) Docela by me zajimalo jestli v tom vidim tesko filosii jenom ja (nevyluciji ze je to jen moje projekce). Ale mam pocit ze se nam tam stary pan Frank snazi rici neco zajimaveho. Neco o nesmrtelnosti, o zenskych z muskych principech. Zacinam mit coela jasne pocit, ze o Zlate stesce lidstva se mluvi jako eufemismu pro "nesmtelnost". Cele s tim prerozovanim v gholech, ozivovani vzpominej svych predku. Zda se mi to ze je to cele matafora Frenka Herberta, kterym popisuje nejaky podivny model chovali lidstva - Hedani nesmrtelnosti - hledani gralu.

    Sesterstvo evidentne prestavuje zenske sily a telilax muske sily. I to ze se oba jmenuji "bene" mi prijde zvolene jako umysl. A Kwizas Haderach zkracenim cesty. Cesty k cemu? Nesmtelnosti samozrejmne.

    Do toho jeste nejakym podivnym spusoben figuruje koreni. Co je to koreni? Je necim tretim do hry. Je to katalizator vedomi. Tedy je koreni nejak souvisejici spodstatou zivota sameho? Koreni ma jednoznacne chrakteritiky houby. Dokonale symbioticke houby, ktera vitalizuje organismus a dodava mu reovnovaho bla bla... proste idealni symbioticka houba. A stejen jako houby ktere u nas na zemice rostou, obsahuji v sobe nejspise klic toho jak se v mnohobunecnych organismech mohly vyvinout bunky se specialiovaymi schopnosti vytvaret slozite enymy a dalsi latky vntrni sekrece. Mezi nez patri mozek. Mozek je jedna velka zlaza s vnitrni sekreci ktera produkuje uctyhodna kvanata neurotransmiteru, ktere jsou zakladem naseho vyssiho vedomi, ale presto se tytez latky obevuji "by produkty" spousty rostlin v nasem okoli. Specialne mluvim o tryptaminech a maoinhibitorech :-)

    Tedy v koreni vydim jendozne nejakou parelu na cistou "chemickou" esenci vedomi. Dokonalou drogu, ktera tim co je telu vlastni, protoze to je to co vytvari v tele dusi.

    A opet kde jinde by nez v lidskem tele meli najit bene tleilax najit "umelou melanz" ...

    Samotny proces "axlotskych nadzi" vytvorit koreni a schopnosti vytvorit gholu, jsou zde opet dany FH do rukou "muzske" sile BT. Do Bene Tleilaxu, ktery prdstavuje muskou silu, je osem take prisouzena FH odpornost, protoze dosahuji nesmrtelnosti na ukor znasilneni zeny (do A. nadrzi).

    Zatimco zeny v BT ovladaji v podstate totoznou schopnost, ale v jine a znekse podobe.

    A ted trochu zamysleni nad tim o melo byt v poslednim dile. Dle meho logickeho zaveru posledni faze je slouceni techto tri principu. Ghola, koreni, Bene Gesseritska Matka = nesmrtelnost.

    Na palube korabu ARKA! Budiz pojmenovan lepe, nez Ithaka... se nachazi vsechny to tri elemeny. Bene Gesserit, Tleilaxan - ktery vyda tajmenstvi melanze a nakonec cerv.

    S Ctihodne matky jiste dokazi ve svem tele vytvorit presne takovou metabolickou rovnovahu, ktera je treba na to aby se v nich rodici se plod mohl "tapnout" na ... na... chybimi slova... na svou dusi zijici ve svem potomku... doufam ze me sledujete... Ctihodne matky IMHO ziskaji schopnost rodit vsechny sve predky, protoze duse v nich uz existuji. U BG min v zenske linii a u vsech atreidu jsou probuzene i muzske linie.

    A toto je potencial korabu ARKA, ktery se riti vesmirem. Na palube je Sheena (Siona - FH je tak pozorny a ma to vsecno vymazlene. Podivejte jake zvolil jmeno pro Evu... slovo sion je zajimave samo o sobe)

    a kdo je tim adamem? Duncan?

    A na probuzeni v Sheene ceka Leto II...
    WIPER
    WIPER --- ---
    DR_K: parada diky!!
    DR_K
    DR_K --- ---
    a naposledy a nejlepe zde, nejen dune
    http://rapidshare.com/files/40501587/Herbert__Frank.rar
    DR_K
    DR_K --- ---
    WIPER: zkus ebookforum.org
    Kliknutím sem můžete změnit nastavení reklam