AYOS: diky za zamysleni :) 'typek od fochy' si dam na tricko, hned po samec mix, filosoficky antropolog, priznivec gangbangu, lol

ad 'regenerativní chov ano nebo ne. Všichni se snad shodnou že ano. problém je ta míra. Na jak velkých plochách? Kolik kusů na jednotku plochy? Jako v přirozených ekosystémech nebo větší hustota? Jaká hustota bude nejméně škodlivá? Jak velkou produkci tím vytvoříme? Dokáže pokrýt taková produkce současnou spotřebu? Tohle jsou podle mě zásadní otázka, na které bychom se měli ptát.'


kazda fraze typu 'regenerativni zemedelstvi' bude zwashovana kymkoliv, protoze nas jazyk a kultura je kompletne prosakla tim marketingovym spinovanim vseho. takze nasrat na regenerativni zemedelstvi, je mi to ukradeny.

to co je dulezity je ten management za tim, tj. holistickej management [kterej zacal allan savory, a ke kterymu se dostanes az preklenes ruzny jiny washovaci kampane, tj. az si konecne prectes o cem to je a ten system managementu si nastudujes]. ten se pta po vsech techle otazkach v tom nejsrisim kontextu - kvality zivota, kterou si stanovujeme (jako lidi s rozhodovaci pravomoci v nejaky skupine), a kterou podpori dlouhodobe nejaky management socialnich, financnich, ekosystemovych zdroju.

ad ty single cell protein - tady nejaka skupina predpoklada kolaps industrialniho zemedelstvi na zaklade masivniho zlevneni bilkovin behem 15 let. proste uz to nebude nejlevnejsi, nejprimocarejsi metoda.

a pak napisou:

- By 2035, lands previously used to produce animal foods in the U.S. could become a major carbon sink

- By 2035, about 60% of the land currently being used for livestock and feed production will be freed for other uses. ... The opportunity to reimagine the American landscape by repurposing this land is wholly unprecedented

je to promysleni toho civilizacniho aspektu levny produkce bilkovin - to je bezva, a decoupluje nas to vyzivove od ekosystemu. od ceho nas to ale nedecoupluje a ani nemuze je nase role v ekosystemu [hyperpredatorska], ktera stale zustava - ten ekosystem z velky casti sam nektery veci neudela a tam, kde jsou bylozravci klicovi je budeme muset znova zavest. zda budeme chtit vyuzivat jejich produkcni potencial pro nas, to se uvidi.


https://tonyseba.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/RethinkXFoodandAgricultureReport.pdf

TADEAS:

Solar Foods prepares to commercialise novel protein Solein in Q4 2022
https://www.foodnavigator.com/...lar-Foods-prepares-to-commercialise-novel-protein-Solein-in-Q4-2022

In an interview with FoodNavigator last year, Vainnika likened Solein’s manufacturing process, for the layman, to wine or beer production. To make wine, grapes provide the sugar and carbon for the fermentation process, before yeast is added to convert the sugars into the final alcohol product. Instead of yeast, the CEO explained, Solar Foods uses a ‘completely natural’ proprietary organism . And instead of sugars, this bacteria eats CO ₂ and hydrogen for its source of carbon and energy. For the nitrogen element, Vainnika continued, the company uses ammonia in a water solution. “It is produced from nitrogen in the air already by combining with hydrogen. We can make our own ammonia from the air, as we already produce a lot of hydrogen for the microbes. “We feed the bacteria with the CO₂ and hydrogen bubbles [produced using water electrolysis] and it grows and multiplies.” In the future, the CEO suggested Solar Foods m ay investigate renew able solar or wind energy, rather than hydropower as its electricity source

YMLADRIS: ad synteticky bilkoviny, uz jsem to sem poruznu daval, jde defakto o vetsi domestikaci autotrofnich organismu.



Single-cell protein - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-cell_protein

Single-cell proteins (SCP) or microbial proteins[1] refer to edible unicellular microorganisms. The biomass or protein extract from pure or mixed cultures of algae, yeasts, fungi or bacteria may be used as an ingredient or a substitute for protein-rich foods, and is suitable for human consumption or as animal feeds


Agriculture-independent, sustainable, fail-safe and efficient food production by autotrophic single-cell protein [PeerJ Preprints]
https://peerj.com/preprints/1279/

This hypothesis paper proposes autotrophic SCP bioprocess designs which enable sustainable, fail-safe and efficient production of edible biomass from CO2 and N2 or NH3. They can be driven by H2, CO or HCOOH from several sustainable sources. Besides H2O-electrolysis and syngas, surprisingly fossil fuel may provide an effectively carbon-negative and cheap supply of H2 through the decomposition of CH4 or oil. Most promising bioprocess designs consist of 2-stages. In the first stage, homoacetogenic bacteria fix CO2 up to 10 more efficiently than plants, and secrete it as acetate. In the second stage, selected microbes grow on the acetate and thereby form edible biomass. Bacteria have unique features including N2-fixation, H2S tolerance and O2-tolerant hydrogenases for fast light-independent growth. Eukaryotic microalgae are already approved as food and exhibit oxygenic photosynthesis which partly replaces solar-panels, seawater desalination and H2O-electrolyzers. Photoheterotrophic growth on acetate decouples these benefits from inefficient endogenous CO2 fixation. Slow gas mass-transfer, poor light distribution and expensive cell harvest are major challenges arising from the cultivation in liquid media. To cope with this, microbes grow as hydrated biofilms that are exposed directly to substrate gases, and that can be dry-harvested.



Solar Foods - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Foods



Rethinking Food and Agriculture 2020-2030: The Second Domestication of Plants and Animals, the Disruption of the Cow, and the Collapse of Industrial Livestock Farming
https://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Food-Agriculture-2020-2030-Domestication/dp/0997047178

+ https://www.rethinkx.com/opinion-gallery/2019/11/29/disrupting-the-cow
+ https://www.rethinkx.com/food-and-agriculture




asi se tam naskyta i vylozene nejaka jeste syntetictejsi cesta, neco ala:
- vyroba renewable vyroba vodiku
- v reverznich fuel cells vyroba amoniaku z vody a vzdusnyho dusiku: https://www.sciencemag.org/...renewable-fuel-made-sun-air-and-water-could-power-globe-without-carbon
- amoniak a vodik vyuzivany pro syntezu bilkovin

SHEFIK: a ted doufam, ze prijde nejaka kritika, protoze me samotnymu prijde konverze 0.9kg -> 1kg zvlastni. znamenalo by to, ze cervi nabiraji svoji hmotu z dalsich vstupu, napada me jen vzduch, nebo voda

YMLADRIS: tadeas to trochu zjednodusuje, chce to trochu vetsi detail, nez hmyz odsoudis :)

zakladem je, ze na kazdej vystup, potrebujes vstupy. (energie, material)

zivej organismus/bunka ma nejakou efektivitu konverze vstupu na nami chteny vystup

ta efektivita konverze je ruzna od organismu/odrudy zvirete (a samozrejme i od vstupu - celuloza je jinak stravitelna, nez moucna kase, u lidi napr. cokolada x zelenina)

tzn. nejjefektivnejsi na konverzi (materialove, zanedbavam dalsi vstupy) by dle logiky melo byt laboratorni maso, protoze tam nemas bazalni spotrebu energie a materialu zbytku organismu a zivis jen mnozeni svalove (nebo jine) bunky s cilem rustu. otazkou je energie nutna na pripravu nakyho zivnyho roztoku, energeticka stimulace pohybu svalu, setup podminek atd. chvili bude trvat, nez se tam dostanem

a pak uz odkazu na FCR na wiki - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed_conversion_ratio

kde si muzes napr. srovnat FCR drubeziho 1.6 (tzn. 1,6 kg krmiva na kg masa) a FCR hmyzu 0.9-1.1

dulezity je, ze FCR se hmyzu teprve vyviji, neni to desetileti osvojeny hospodareni jako napr. u drubeziho. tzn. muze se jeste vyvijet (i kdyz asi uz ani neni moc kam u pomeru 0.9...)

kdyz to prelozim do diskuze tady, tak pokud vypestujem 0.9kg nejaky plodiny, a je jedno, jestli regenerativne, nebo intenzivnim zemedelstvim, jsme schopny skrz krmeni cervu dostat 1kg vysoce kvalitniho bilkovinnyho "vstupu" pro lidi :)

TADEAS: pro lidi od kompu to samozrejme vzdycky bude fantazie, protoze zvednout prdel a jet nekam presvedcovat sam sebe je proste narocny.

hur dur