• úvod
  • témata
  • události
  • tržiště
  • diskuze
  • nástěnka
  • přihlásit
    registrace
    ztracené heslo?
    FESAKFLOYDDementogenní psychofarmaka a metabolické jedy
    Psychiatric Drugs Kill the Lives of Those Who Take Them http://www.encognitive.com/node/1185 Drug-Induced Dementia: a perfect crime http://www.amazon.com/Drug-Induced-Dementia-MD-Grace-Jackson/dp/1438972318 Brain Damage Caused by Neuroleptic Psychiatric Drugs http://www.mindfreedom.org/kb/psychiatric-drugs/antipsychotics/neuroleptic-brain-damage Evidence of Neuroleptic Drug-Induced Brain Damage http://www.ahrp.org/risks/biblio0100.php Arch Gen Psychiatry -- Abstract: Long-term Antipsychotic Treatment and Brain Volumes: A Longitudinal Study of First-Episode Schizophrenia, February 2011, Ho et al. 68 (2): 128 http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/2/128 Metanalysis: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014976341200125X Antipsychotic deflates the brain Drug for schizophrenia causes side effects by shrinking part of the brain. http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100606/full/news.2010.281.html Indeed, it looks as if after some 50 years widespread prescribing there is going to be a massive re-evaluation and re-interpretation of these drugs, with a reversal of their evaluation as a great therapeutic breakthrough. It now seems distinctly possible that for half a century the creation of millions of asocial, neuroleptic-dependent but docile Parkinsonian patients has been misinterpreted as a ‘cure’ for schizophrenia. This wholesale re-interpretation represents an unprecedented disaster for the self-image and public reputation – not just of psychiatry – but of the whole medical profession. Perhaps the main useful lesson from the emergence of the 'atypical' neuroleptics is that psychiatrists did not need to make all of their agitated and psychotic patients Parkinsonian in order to suppress their behavior. ‘Atypicals’ are weakly neuroleptic but highly sedative. This implies that sedation is probably sufficient for behavioral control in most instances [3, 17]. In the immediate term, it therefore seems plausible that already-existing, cheap, sedative drugs (such as benzodiazepines or antihistamines) offer realistic hope of being safer, equally effective and subjectively less-unpleasant substitutes for neuroleptics in many (if not all) patients. I would argue that this should happen sooner rather than later. If we apply the test of choosing what treatment we would prefer for ourselves or our relatives with acute agitation or psychosis, knowing what we now know about neuroleptics, I think that many people (perhaps especially psychiatric professionals) would now wish to avoid neuroleptics except as a last resort. Few would be happy to wait a decade or so for the accumulations of a mass of randomized trial data (which may never emerge, since such trials would lack a commercial incentive) before making the choice of less dangerous and unpleasant drugs [17]. But there is no hiding the fact that if neuroleptics were indeed to be replaced by sedatives then this would seem like stepping-back half a century. It would entail an acknowledgement that psychiatry has been living in a chronic delusional state – and this may suggest that the same could apply to other branches of medicine. Since such a wholesale cognitive and organizational reappraisal is unlikely, perhaps the most realistic way that the desired change in practice will be accomplished is not by an explicit ‘return’ to old drugs but by the introduction of a novel (and patentable) class of sedatives which are marketed as having some kind of (more-or-less plausible) new therapeutic role. Why are doctors still prescribing neuroleptics? by Bruce G Charlton http://www.hedweb.com/bgcharlton/neuroleptics.html
    rozbalit záhlaví
    PETGRIDUS
    PETGRIDUS --- ---
    KOCOURMIKES: je potřeba si najít nepřítele co
    KOCOURMIKES
    KOCOURMIKES --- ---
    KLUZAU: nasi psychousi droguji kazdeho neuroleptiky na potkani
    PETGRIDUS
    PETGRIDUS --- ---
    KLUZAU: tohle mi přijde jako plácání do vody. Nemyslím, že teda třeba v Africe, kde léčebna vypadá tak, že nemocný má kroužek na noze a je uvázan ke kůlu na řetězu, že by zrovna tohle mělo tak spásný a terapeutický účinek.
    KLUZAU
    KLUZAU --- ---
    vidim ze je to tu zivy. Zkusim jeste vic bodnout do vosiho hnizda. Rozebirate tu klinicke a osobni zkusenosti, ale co se na to podivat trochu z ptaci perspektivy?
    Mam pocit, ze tu vsichni postuji ruzne zpusoby jak ovlivnit svuj mozek, naprimo. Dam tohle, uberu tohle, a pripadne se to otestuje., a zkousite, jaky to bude mit dopad, a jestli to nenapravi chemickou balanci v mozku. Extremem je Julieeharshaw, a to, cemu by se snad dalo pracovne rikat "smazky" (spis ale asi experimentatori), ktera to kombinuje vsechno dohromady, a shodou okolnosti a snad i diky sve intuici je ted v pohode, a ne pod koprem. A nemluvim jen jako socialni pracovnik, mam osobni zkusenost.
    Nestalo by za to ale vzit do uvahu moznost, ze by pripadne lidi vzali svoje zdravi takrikajic do vlastnich rukou? Mluvili jsme tu o ruznych alternativach, kterych je cim dal vic (z nejakeho duvodu n e v CR), ale otazkou, zdali by nebyl i lepsi nedelat proste nic:

    Jde o to, ze se ted zkoumaji oba stezejni vyzkumy WHO, ktere potvrzuji ze mimo USA a Evropu, zvlast v rozvojovych zemich, ma schizofrenik o 30*-40procent vetsi sanci na uzdraveni, a to uz dlouhou dobu. Myslelo se, ze za to muze kultura, samani, lepsi spolecnost a tak podobne. Nekdo ted na novy rok ale vyzkoumal promeny, a vypada to, ze statistickou pricinou je fakt, ze rozvojovych zemich neni medikace.

    Tedy, kdybychom to cely zavrely, bylo by tady o 40 procent vice zdravych lidi.

    Proto jsou kapacity v USA, ktere to navrhuji.

    Ted me klidne zabijte.

    CRUSHEER
    CRUSHEER --- ---
    CORNELA: no jasne, ja prave rikam, ze to aspon ted klinicky relevantni neni (Palenicek rikal, ze u jednoho pacienta antidepresivni ucinek perzistuje i po dvou letech..ale to je zas jen jeden z mnoha, ze)
    CORNELA: nevim jak to maji v PCP nastavene...
    SHEALA
    SHEALA --- ---
    CORNELA: na druhou stranu, kdo dneska (na nyxu) nemá nějakou zkušenost s návykovýma látkama? Ale jistě, že bych do ketaminu nešla, jen... no... uff :)
    SHEALA
    SHEALA --- ---
    KLUZAU: Disociativum. Pád do temnot. Něco co bych si nedala, ani když bych si byla stopro jistá, že mě to neudusí, nevykřečuje, a to mám za sebou jistou zkušenost s MDMA a houbama.
    CRUSHEER
    CRUSHEER --- ---
    JULIEEHARSHAW: 0.5mg/kg i.v.:)
    CRUSHEER
    CRUSHEER --- ---
    takovy zbytecny hadky...
    pokud vim, s ketaminem je posledni roky boom v psychiatrii, protoze jednorazovy podani cca 30mg/kg zbavi priznaku tezky deprese u lidi, kterym nic jinyho nefungovalo. ucinek trva par dni az tyden, pak se to u drtivy vetsiny lidi vrati... kvuli cemuz to neni v klinicky praxi. u nas to delaj v PCP a studie se daj dohledat.

    to samotny precel ale nesouvisi s tim, jaky jsou SSRI, jakej je ketamin a jestli ho uzivaj jenom smazky.
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    CORNELA: kdo to hlasa? Ja psal ze se to zkouma, ma to slibne vysledky a ze ja osobne bych to zkusil. Ja mam zase problem s tim ja kto ty a Pedrigus apriori odsuzujete aniz byste se o danou oblast vubec zajimali. a pak s tvym hnusnym manipulativnim stylem, kdy podsouvas, vytvaris umele dichotomi a ad hominem srazis partnery v diszkuzi.
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    CORNELA: myslet si to muzes, ale jen tim ukazujes svou aroganci. opakuju- jak je tvuj ad hominem argument proti me validni proti te teorii o pozitivnich ucincich ketaminu na deprese ktera se zkouma? chces mi jen nadavat, znemoznit diskuzi nebo mas proste nejaky osobni problem?
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    CORNELA: ty si dobry demagog. nekdo prijde s osobni zkusenosti a ty ho obvinis z nereprezntativnost vzorku? co te na tom tak bavi probuh?
    ONEHEART
    ONEHEART --- ---
    omg přečtěte si už konečně záhlaví a nástěnku!
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    CORNELA: predpokladam ze nedelas ani ve valecne zone ani na popaleninach ani ve vyzkumu lecby depresi, takze s tim asi taky nemas moc zkusenosti, ne? a proc je vubec tvuj ad hominem argument nejak validni? ja ty vyzkumy nedelal. mas fakt problem...
    PETGRIDUS
    PETGRIDUS --- ---
    JULIEEHARSHAW: ketamin,mdma s adčkama to je docela smrtelnej guláš
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    CORNELA: to je tvoje rovnice, me do toho netahej.
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    CORNELA: bavili jsme so o srovnani compliance AD a ketaminu, co tam ted tendence michas AP? u ketaminu zatim samozrejme neni znama, pac se klinicky na deprese jen testuje. ketamin se pouziva i v humani medicine pomerne dost, zas tak nebezpecny a neprijatelny asi neni.
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    KLUZAU: vyzkumy ukazuji ze bez ohledu na kvalitu psychedelicke zkusenosti ma na depresi pomerne radikalni ucinek. bohuzel strasne variabilni v delce ucinku (dny az tydny). zkouseli nejake pribuzne molekuly bez psychedelickeho potencialu a vypada to docela slibne.
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    CORNELA: "takový účinky, díky kterým si ho krom pár fetaku nikdo nedá dobrovolně znova" tohle neni pravda. teda vlastne je, protoze ten kdo si ho da dobrovolne znova je podle toho fetak... na tehle urovni ja diskutovat nechci.
    KLUZAU
    KLUZAU --- ---
    Ketamin je psychedelicka zalezitost, ne? V ramci psychologie potencialu prece nejde delat jednoduche rovnice ketamin: snizi/zvysi depresi, kdyz je to peak experience?
    MORPHLER
    MORPHLER --- ---
    PETGRIDUS: tak samozrejme i piko se zkouselo. akorat nemelo tak dobre vysledky...
    Kliknutím sem můžete změnit nastavení reklam